[yaohung]

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reasonable or not? If not, suggest one auction you consider logical.

6M5m 6M4m type, which suit you would like to rebid next. 2M or 2m?

[aguahombre]

IMO, the only reason South might not choose the 2♣ rebid would be in anticipation of exactly what happened. And 2♣ instead of 2♥ is not unreasonable, so the auction was unfortunate but reasonable. I won't result-merchant a 2♥ rebid.

There will be gadgets over 2♣ presented (for responding hands with long spades short of g.f.), I am sure; but we don't have any of those.

[ArtK78]

I think that there is a lot to be said for South bidding clubs one more time. Even when North has a very good 6 card spade suit, 3♠ doesn't look like the right contract.

Clearly, bidding clubs again is not without risk. But I believe that it offers a better chance at a plus score (perhaps a large plus score). There is a significant difference between having 5-4 in the rounded suits (all that South has promised so far) and having 5-5 or better in the rounded suits (as would be shown by bidding clubs one more time). And, since you could pass 3♠, the fact that you bid again strongly implies that you are not just 5-5, but you are probably 6-5 or 6-6.

As it turns out, 4♥ is a very reasonable contract. I would guess that 4♥ is more likely to make than 3♠.

If I were 6-4, I would rebid hearts before introducing the 4 card club suit. However, as I mentioned in another thread some time ago, some players play that bidding your suits in this order - M - M - m - and bidding your suits in this order - M - m - M - both show 6M 4m, but the first sequence is weaker than the second sequence.

On this hand, none of this is relevant, as you are always going to bid the suits M - m - m since you are 6-5.

[JLOGIC]

Nobody did anything really unreasonable imo even though the final contract is obviously a silly one. The only things different that could have happened are different methods from standard bidding (if north could invite at the 2 level, south would probably chance out a bid, or old fashioned 4th suit not game forcing would possibly help), or north could just choose to overbid and bid 2D GFing in order to increase the chance of getting to the right strain since he has Kx of hearts (more reasonable if your opening bids are sound), or south could just continue on with 4C and hope for the best. That said, the methods are standard and bidding 3S and passing it are both certainly reasonable actions.

[Cyberyeti]

This is a difficult situation playing standard and Justin sums it up well, being one of the few people that plays 2♦ as non GF 4SF, this hand is not as bad for me.

[gszes]

playing strong jump shifts this hand is not overly difficult--
1h normal
1s this lack of jump shift has a strong bearing later on.
2c normal heart suit quality insufficient to bury clubs suit.
3s very reasonable bid and failure to bid 2s earlier shows the quality as average to average +
4c silly to play in 3s opposite a moderate quality 6 card suit
4h Honor x pretty decent support hoping we get lucky.

[Cyberyeti]

gszes, on 2013-July-24, 16:35, said:

playing strong jump shifts this hand is not overly difficult--
1h normal
1s this lack of jump shift has a strong bearing later on.
2c normal heart suit quality insufficient to bury clubs suit.
3s very reasonable bid and failure to bid 2s earlier shows the quality as average to average +
4c silly to play in 3s opposite a moderate quality 6 card suit
4h Honor x pretty decent support hoping we get lucky.

Not true, 3♠ shows a HAND not good enough for a SJS not a SUIT not good enough, 11 points and a 6 card suit would be normal, well short of a SJS even if the suit is AKQxxx.

[jogs]

Bidding is an inexact science. Some hands just
don't fix our bidding methods.
This time 2♦ works. Can we really cater a
system to unlikely 6-5 hands?

[dake50]

I think that there is a lot to be said for South bidding clubs one more time. Even when North has a very good 6 card spade suit, 3♠ doesn't look like the right contract.
Clearly, bidding clubs again is not without risk. But I believe that it offers a better chance at a plus score (perhaps a large plus score). There is a significant difference between having 5-4 in the rounded suits (all that South has promised so far) and having 5-5 or better in the rounded suits (as would be shown by bidding clubs one more time). And, since you could pass 3♠, the fact that you bid again strongly implies that you are not just 5-5, but you are probably 6-5 or 6-6.
As it turns out, 4♥ is a very reasonable contract. I would guess that 4♥ is more likely to make than 3♠.
If I were 6-4, I would rebid hearts before introducing the 4 card club suit. However, as I mentioned in another thread some time ago, some players play that bidding your suits in this order - M - M - m - and bidding your suits in this order - M - m - M - both show 6M 4m, but the first sequence is weaker than the second sequence.
On this hand, none of this is relevant, as you are always going to bid the suits M - m - m since you are 6-5. --ArtK78

*** Even more so when you trust partner won't jump 3S when he sees a misfit.
Then 4C infers "We're not in trouble. Which game?"

[benlessard]

IMO these hands are more common that we think.

I know 3 way to avoid those

1- play that 2D is any INV and 2NT+ is GF. You lose some space when you GF but just being able to stop at 2H and 2S will compensate. Here it will go 2D(any INV)--2S (I refuse a S inv but super-accept a H INV)--3H a doubleton H INV--passor4H

I also like to play 1H--2S as 4-7 and 1S followed by 2S is 8-10 (doesnt solve anything here)

Playing Kaplan Inversion or flannery (when you show S you have 5) will also help since there is no need to repeat a medium 6 card suit.

[Free]

Nothing really unreasonable about the bidding. South may choose to rebid ♣ one more time, but he doesn't really know if that will improve the contract. North may upgrade to a GF but there's no real reason to do so except ♥Kx.

[Zelandakh]

benlessard, on 2013-July-24, 21:56, said:

I know 3 way to avoid those

A fourth way of avoiding this would be using a relay response. Then the auction might go:

1♥ - 1♠ = INV+ relay
1NT = min without 4 spades
... - 2♠ = natural invite
3♣ = natural
... - 3♥ = natural
4♥

The end result is a natural auction where both players can bid out their shape without fear of overstating their values.

[gszes]

Cyberyeti, on 2013-July-24, 16:54, said:

Not true, 3♠ shows a HAND not good enough for a SJS not a SUIT not good enough, 11 points and a 6 card suit would be normal, well short of a SJS even if the suit is AKQxxx.

the main purpose of a SJS is suit quality essentially making that suit trump since it should
promise at most a 1 loser suit opposite a void. Having such a suit KQJT9x for ex and
anything remotely resembling a limit raise is sufficient to become game forcing because
the SJS suit itself provides safety and at least 5 tricks more than enough to force to game.

AKQxxx is close but not sufficient for a SJS IMO.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

yaohung, on 2013-July-24, 12:56, said:

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reasonable or not? If not, suggest one auction you consider logical.

Given how much space is needed to show the 6 card ♠ suit with invitational values ( 3S-jump ) , perhaps it is not a bad idea to adopt the 1 round 4th suit force ( 4SF-1 ) suggested by Bridge World Standard 2001 for 4th suit "non-reverse" auctions :

South - North
1H - 1S
2C - 2D!
3C - ??

[mfa1010]

I think passing 3♠ is too masochistic. We rate to catch at least something useful, and then there will be some play for a lucky game, while 3♠ will be silly, if partner's spades are less than excellent.