[barsikb]

Tempting to bid slam. How to avoid it?

North bidding first.

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[Free]

That depends a lot on how you continue after 1♦-1♥-2♥. Some have a 2NT asking bid, you may start by bidding your ♠s (a long suit trial can be stronger than invitational!), you might jump to 4♦ (which doesn't work out here),...

On this hand you have to foresee that when you jump to 4♦ you make it very difficult for your partnership. A splinter doesn't help the North hand though, so he should signoff in 4♥, after which South is basically stuck. South can either continue cuebidding which isn't a good idea for light distributional slams imo, or use RKC which isn't good if you possibly lack controls.

So in standard methods, I think it's best to start by showing ♠s. Example:
1♦-1♥ (3+♦ ; 4+♥)
2♥-2♠ (4♥ ; long suit trial)
3♥-3♠ (no ♠ support ; cuebid)
4♦-4♥ (cuebid ; lacking a ♣ cuebid)

[Antrax]

1♦-1♥
2♥
After this start, it begins to diverge based on agreements. If you have the agreement that S can now splinter (showing diamond shortness and his point range), S can do that.
If not, S can use a game try, and again it depends what you're playing. Some can show spade values, some can show diamond shortness, some can show a club problem (or a combination of two of those three).
If S shows diamond shortness, North's hand doesn't improve (it would've been much better to have AK of another suit) but it's still not the end of the world. N will always show a minimum in response to such a bid.
If S shows spade values, N will like his hand more, since JT should combine nicely with them.
If S shows a club problem, N will see he shares the same problem.

In my partnership, it would look something like this:
1♦-1♥
2♥-2♠* (game try, some shortness)
2NT* (which?)-3♦ (♦)
3♥ (too bad)- 3♠(spade control)
4♦(diamond control, no club control)-4♥ (darn, two club losers)

[barsikb]

Thank you, Free and Antrax!

If not using "game try, some shortness" yet but willing to try control showing cue bidding right after 2H at what level Spades should be bid?

[Free]

barsikb, on 2013-July-20, 23:49, said:

If not using "game try, some shortness" yet but willing to try control showing cue bidding right after 2H at what level Spades should be bid?

I'm sorry but won't answer this question since I'd be giving bad advice. After 2♥ you have plenty of space to describe one of the hands a bit better (either by showing or by asking) BEFORE you start cuebidding. There's no need to rush things and waste space just to start cuebidding. For all you know, you may lose an Ace and a ♠ trick (partner having 3♠s).

[mikeh]

barsikb, on 2013-July-20, 23:49, said:

Thank you, Free and Antrax!

If not using "game try, some shortness" yet but willing to try control showing cue bidding right after 2H at what level Spades should be bid?

The simple answer is 'don't try control bidding after 2♥'

There is a very useful saying: game before slam.

Unless we have clearly set trump AND established a game forcing sequence, new suits should be treated as attempts to find game, including (sometimes) the better of alternative strains.

Thus 1♦ 3♦ (limit) 3M by opener should be assumed to be showing a stopper and looking for 3N.

Even in a gf auction we can still have the same issues.

1♠ 2♦ 3♦ playing 2/1 gf so that 2♦ was forcing to game, 3♥ by responder should be treated as a probe for 3N, presumably heart values and no club stopper.


Only if we have set trump and game forced are our changes of suit control cues.

1♠ 2♥ 3♥....4♣ by responder is a cue bid regardless of our method (2/1, standard, Precision etc), because we have set hearts as trump, and the 4♣ call established a gf even for those for whom 3♥ could have been passed.

Note that I say that these new suits (in the earlier auctions) should be 'treated' as game tries.

This is because the player who makes the call MAY in fact have a big hand and be making a control cuebid.

Sounds confusing, but the secret is that partner bids as if it was a game try and now the player who cuebid makes another call, confirming that he always had game values and that retroactively his first try should now be viewed as a cuebid.

An example will help.

1♦ 3♦ (limit) 3♥ 4♦ 4♠

3♥ should be treated as a heart stopper, looking for 3N. Responder retreats to 4♦, rejecting 3N. Opener now bids 4♠!

This is clearly a slam try, since opener can hardly want to play in spades, and he can't stop short of 5♦. He retroactively announces that his 3♥ bid was NOT a probe for 3N but a cuebid.

Or say responder bid 3N over 3♥...and opener pulled to 4♣. Clearly 3♥ was NOT a try for 3N, since opener has just pulled 3N! This means that responder should see the 3♥ bid retroactively as a cuebid.

In the hand you gave, responder bids 2♠ over 2♥. Forget the advice about this being a long suit gametry. it is nothing of the sort. It is a cuebid...but, and this is the important point, opener doesn't know it is a cuebid...opener takes it as a gametry....whatever sort you play. For me, it would be a help suit (actually, I prefer 2♠ as completely artifical but that's NOT for this forum)

Opener hates his hand and rejects via 3♥.

Now responder bids 3♠..this forces to game after the rejection, so in retrospect the 2♠ cannot have been a try for game...responder was always bidding game! So now both the 2♠ and 3♠ bids are cuebids! Responder has shown the AK spades and slam interest opposite a hand that rejected the 2♠ game try.


It is absolutely critical to understand that when the partnership is not yet openly committed to game, new suits bids that do not commit the partnership to game are to be taken as an effort either to reach game or to reach the best game. Thus 1♠ 2♠ 3♦: here opener is trying to decide whether we belong in 3♠ or 4♠. He isn't trying to play in diamonds or notrump.

1♦ 3♦ (limit) 3♥: opener is looking for 3N and if not, may play in 4♦ or 5♦.

However, in all of these sequences if opener (in some auctions it may be responder) later makes a call inconsistent with it having been a gametry, then it is retroactively a cuebid.