[yunling]

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obviously 3♣ is a signoff, and 2NT also seems poor.

[fromageGB]

Since someone recently told me to click on the yellow boxes to find what the bids mean, I do that.
I don't play this way, but would have thought 3♣ is a perfect description. Game seems remote.

[PhilKing]

Gazilli is too aggressive in that the 2♦ relay starts at 8+. I think the threshold should be 9. Then partner's 2♠ bid can be tapered down to 11-14 ♠s and ♣s.

[Free]

Generally 2♣ doesn't necessarily promise 4+♣, so 2NT doesn't look so silly. But if it promises 4+♣ then this auction sucks. You could bid 3♣ but partner doesn't have to interpret this as an invite ofcourse. However, you've promised 8+HCP and singleton/void ♠, so partner can move with a max and poor ♠s.

[awm]

In one partnership we use openers sequence:

1s-1nt-2c-2d-2h to show a max balanced or clubs. Then the given 2s sequence is min and we would just bid 3c to play on the given hand.

In the other partnership where I play Gazzilli we don't play GF 2/1 bids and would respond 2c on the hand given.

[MickyB]

PhilKing, on 2013-March-27, 06:39, said:

Gazilli is too aggressive in that the 2♦ relay starts at 8+.

I disagree - it's the negatives on which Gaz really sucks, most often when you fail to find your club fit.

Could you still be INV with hearts here? If not, then 3H should show hearts+clubs and a good hand, which would be an option here.

[fromageGB]

If it's the negatives that suck, do you mean when responder has a very weak hand? I don't think that is true, because 8 for a positive leaves a very narrow range for a negative. You can't really get smaller. I like the idea of non-gazzilli opener rebid (over a forcing NT) being 11-14 and that's how I play it. The 4 point range is plenty to be able to handle with an invitation.

In the OP style of non-forcing 1NT, I would have thought that a free bid of 2♣, not being 16, would either be accepting a game invitation, or have 5 clubs. One or the other. Do you really want to bid clubs with 4 and a 12 count when you could have passed 1NT?

[benlessard]

Why not

1S--1NT
2C--3C

if partner got 16+ you are GF and if hes got clubs he can pass with a min and go on with a max.

[PhilKing]

benlessard, on 2013-March-28, 14:50, said:

Why not

1S--1NT
2C--3C

if partner got 16+ you are GF and if hes got clubs he can pass with a min and go on with a max.

Because you have four points to spare, a heart too many and a club too few. Apart from that, it's perfect.

[benlessard]

Your telling me that for you 3C show less than 8 pts and 7 clubs ?

This is because you play the original really crappy Gaz where all 17+ have to bid 2C, therefore your not being able to pass 2C with crap and 6-7 clubs.

Otherwise you can just play 3C as inv and pass 2 clubs with the long club crap. Having 4H is not a draw back since partner only going to have 4H with a 16+ and is going to bid them.


Just play 2Nt and higher as transfer showing GF jump shift or 5-5 with extras. So that way 2C Gaz become bal/ extras (not GF) or clubs. The only annoying hand is when opener has 18-19 bal.

[PhilKing]

.

[PhilKing]

benlessard, on 2013-March-30, 17:28, said:

Just play 2Nt and higher as transfer showing GF jump shift or 5-5 with extras. So that way 2C Gaz become bal/ extras (not GF) or clubs. The only annoying hand is when opener has 18-19 bal.

The question was about how to show an invitational club raise playing Gazzilli, unless I am mistaken - not what to do playing a completely different system. Not that's that what you said, meant or in any way implied.

benlessard, on 2013-March-28, 14:50, said:

Why not

1S--1NT
2C--3C

if partner got 16+ you are GF and if hes got clubs he can pass with a min and go on with a max.

[yunling]

PhilKing, on 2013-March-27, 06:39, said:

Gazilli is too aggressive in that the 2♦ relay starts at 8+. I think the threshold should be 9. Then partner's 2♠ bid can be tapered down to 11-14 ♠s and ♣s.

I admit that it is a bit too aggressive, but since I live in China where most people play precision and they will always bid game with these 16+8, so I think it is OK. A 11-14 range will be better but problem still exists.

[yunling]

fromageGB, on 2013-March-27, 16:47, said:

If it's the negatives that suck, do you mean when responder has a very weak hand? I don't think that is true, because 8 for a positive leaves a very narrow range for a negative. You can't really get smaller. I like the idea of non-gazzilli opener rebid (over a forcing NT) being 11-14 and that's how I play it. The 4 point range is plenty to be able to handle with an invitation.

In the OP style of non-forcing 1NT, I would have thought that a free bid of 2♣, not being 16, would either be accepting a game invitation, or have 5 clubs. One or the other. Do you really want to bid clubs with 4 and a 12 count when you could have passed 1NT?

Passing with a 5S-4C minimum sounds like a sensible idea. I will try it out.