[RunemPard]

Was assisting at our bridge club's beginner night and had a hand like this come up. They were getting an introduction to 4SF playing 4 card openings.

1♠-2♣
2♦-2♥*
2♠-??

Don't remember the cards, they are not really important. Shape of the opener was 6241 with a minimum. Responder had something like 1345


What does 2NT show in SA and 2/1 (or your own system)? In SA, it may be nice to have the 2NT bid open for showing 12-14 with a single stopper, however, I was wondering more about something like this in a 2/1 system...I am far from good at bidding theory, but I am very curious about this type of auction. It is rare that responder will have a stopper in hearts unless very strong in 2/1, correct? I guess this depends a little on style, but typically with a balanced/semi-balanced min hand with a stopper you would show NT directly? So does having 2NT as......have any merit?

2N - Relay, asking for shape
---3♣ 5x5x (3♦ relay...)
---3♦ 5143 or 5044 (3♥ relay...)
---3♥ 5242
---3♠ 6142 or 6043 (4♣ relay...)
---3N 6241 or 6340 (4♣ relay...)
---4♣+????

I am 100% sure there are better ways to put together the replies, but I put something up quickly to have a visual of my thoughts.


Thanks all ,

Don

[antonylee]

With a minimum 6241 I would expect opener to rebid 2♠ (then 3♦ on the next round), but let's forget that for now.
I would assume 2N to be naturalish with some antipositional stopper, like Hx Axx xx HHxxxx (replace H by some honors). This kind of hand would rather be dummy than declare 3N -- say Kx Axx xx KQxxxx opposite AQxxx Qx KJxx Jxx -- and 4♠ even on a 5-2, or 5♣ are not excluded either; so I'd start with 2♥ and see where we get from there.

[manudude03]

I would just teach beginners to bid naturally. It's hard enough for them remembering the basic stuff without throwing in these relays which depend on how the auction started.

[RunemPard]

Nothing to do with beginners..I am asking out of my own interest. I just tend to type too much.

[manudude03]

I still wouldn't do it, it just feels as if you're left guessing too often.

1S-2C
2D-2H
2S-2N
3D-3H
3S (let's just say this is 5341 for argument sake)

How good are those hearts? Hope you're a better guesser than I am. For what it's worth, it seems better for 3C to be 5431 hands as this would allow a 3S relay after 3D-3H. This let's you distinguish the hearts problem. With 5242, if responder can't cover hearts, you probably don't belong there anyway (not to mention next relay is probably for heart quality or honor count anyway).

[PhilKing]

There isn't much left to relay for. Natural is just fine here, since texture is important when choosing between 3NT, 4♠ and 5♣. I do play 3♦ as a shape relay agreeing diamonds (since opener did not promise diamonds until the 2♠ bid the way I play it), but 55, 5143 and some of the other shapes you mention have already been excluded.

[Free]

In similar relay auctions where opener has shown 5-4 or better, we use the following scheme:
3C = 5-4 (3D relays - need 3 steps)
3D = 6-4 (3H relays - need 2 steps)
3H/S = 5-5 showing shortness
3NT = 5-0-4-4
In our case opener will have shown if he's min or max, and in case of 5440 opener never has 4OM.