[hirowla]

Just wondering how to find these games unambiguously. I'll reveal the actual sequences later (one got there but probably shouldn't have, one didn't). 5-card major style bidding with a weak NT (if it matters).

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How do you get there without risking being left short?

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Can you get there at all?

Any ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Ian

[kriegel]

For the first hand:
1♣ - 1♠
3♣ - 3♦
3♠ - 4♠
Pass

For the second:
1♣ - (2♠) - 3♣ (a negative double would show a better hand, I think; I may be wrong)
3♦ - 3♥
3♠ (want more in spades for 3NT) - 4♣
5♣ - Pass

Or more realistically:
1♣ - (2♠) - 3♣ - (4♠)
5♣ - Pass

[hirowla]

In that first sequence - can't 3♣ be passed? I didn't want that to happen - I want to force to game but don't know whether it is in ♣ or ♠.

I'll reveal more about the 2nd sequence later.

kriegel, on 2013-January-12, 20:47, said:

For the first hand:
1♣ - 1♠
3♣ - 3♦
3♠ - 4♠
Pass

For the second:
1♣ - (2♠) - 3♣ (a negative double would show a better hand, I think; I may be wrong)
3♦ - 3♥
3♠ (want more in spades for 3NT) - 4♣
5♣ - Pass

Or more realistically:
1♣ - (2♠) - 3♣ - (4♠)
5♣ - Pass

[FrancesHinden]

For the first hand, 1C - 1S - 3C - 3D - 3S - 4S
Yes, 3C can be passed but I don't think the hand is worth a game force opposite a hand that would pass 3C.

On the second one, you have a big advantage that 1C is either extra values or unbalanced, but South still has a difficult call over 2S
Possibly 1C - 2S - 3C - 3D - 4S(splinter) - 5C although that's giving up on playing in 4H

[Cyberyeti]

FrancesHinden, on 2013-January-13, 04:27, said:

For the first hand, 1C - 1S - 3C - 3D - 3S - 4S
Yes, 3C can be passed but I don't think the hand is worth a game force opposite a hand that would pass 3C.

On the second one, you have a big advantage that 1C is either extra values or unbalanced, but South still has a difficult call over 2S
Possibly 1C - 2S - 3C - 3D - 4S(splinter) - 5C although that's giving up on playing in 4H

On the first hand, to me 3♣ denies a big spade fit, so partner will pass J109xxx, xx, Axx, xx or similar. I will overbid slightly, if I have a gadget to help I'll use it, if I don't I'll bid 2♦ and follow up by bidding spades. Even opposite something as bad as KJxx, Qxxx, xxx, xx 3N is good enough to bid at teams or at least close.

On the second, I'd bid 3♥. I know I don't have the defence associated with this bid, but I do have the requisite offence, either partner raises hearts or he has a real club suit, and I will bid 5♣ over 4♠ if I have to.

[JLOGIC]

I am not convinced south should bid 3D after 1C 1S 3C rather than 3N.

[FrancesHinden]

JLOGIC, on 2013-January-13, 12:12, said:

I am not convinced south should bid 3D after 1C 1S 3C rather than 3N.

Is it obvious 4S is better than 3NT?

[JLOGIC]

Good question. If neither red suit is bid and hearts are 3-5 with 3 on lead then it is likely you will get a D lead. 4S is probably better still, but the fact that it is even close opposite AQx xx in the majors might go to my point that south should just bid 3N over 3C.

Isn't it possible that partner will bid 3S with 2 spade honors over 3D (make a spade a diamond?). I would be worried about that with T98xx, especially when people will often go out of their way not to bid 3C with HHx of spades (with 6331 I bet reversing would be a majority choice?). I would also be worried 3D would help them lead hearts rather than diamonds if we are gonna get to 3N.

[gnasher]

Call me an animal, but on the first one I'd bid 1♣-1♠;2NT, after which spades would be easy to find.

On the second, if responder passed over 2♠, as opener I'd back in with 2NT, showing the minors. Then responder would bid 5♣.

[JLOGIC]

Wow I would think a 2N balance would be natural, are you really passing it out with a balanced 19 count or w/e?

I would never pass with 6-5 and 5 of partners suit over 2S though, I'd bid 3C and plan to bid 4H over 3N from partner hopefully indicating something like this. On this hand partner would not bid 3N though.

[cherdano]

gnasher, on 2013-January-13, 15:21, said:

Call me an animal, but on the first one I'd bid 1♣-1♠;2NT, after which spades would be easy to find.

I reserve "animal" for those who open 2NT.

[antonylee]

A 2NT rebid looks completely normal for me on board 1...

[akwoo]

First one:

1C - 1S
1N - 2C (XYNT)
2S - 4S

(I don't think a 2N rebid is out of line with that monster, but playing weak NT in North America, partner is trained to respond 1S with as little as Kxxx; xxx; Jxxx; xx to avoid the swing against the majority of the field opening 1N)

Second one:

1C - 2S - 3C - 4S (or 3S)
5C

(surely opps compete in spades with half the points and a 10 card fit)

[lowerline]

1♣ (2♠) pass
2nt (1) 4♣
5♣ p

(1) Scrambling

[P_Marlowe]

#1

1C - 1S
3C (1) - 4S

(1) 6 clubs, 3 spades, inv. strength

This is an option, if you free up the 2NT repid by opener,
e.g. if you play a wide ranging NT rebid, we play a 15-19 MT
repid by opener.

#2

1C - (2S) - Pass - (Pass)
2NT (1) - (Pass) - 3C (2)
(1) art., good bad, 16+, various hand type
(2) min, I dont think I am bidding 5C

But maybe they save me, after all, they have 10 spades, and it is not
out of the world, that they bid 3S, responder will bid 4C, opener will
raise.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[hirowla]

Ok, sorry but I forgot to reveal!

On the first board - bidding in real life went 1♣ - 1♠ - 2♦ - 2♠ - 3♠ - pass. I thought the 2♦ bid would show my strength enough better than a 3♣ bid which can be passed. Oops! I think that was our only bad board of the day.

On the second board - bidding in real life went 1♣ - (2♠) - 3♥ - 4♣ - 5♣. I thought the ♥ bid showed a strong hand. But it did make 5♣.

Thanks for your suggestions,

Ian