[jjbrr]

Maybe I should just ask this in the other thread, but I'm still curious about people's answers there and don't want to get off topic.

For all the wine connoisseurs out there, do you have any tips for an amateur wine drinker? Frankly, I don't really know the difference between good wine and bad wine except for the very obvious cases where the bad wine tastes like grape lifesavers. I would be surprised if I could tell the difference between a $30 bottle of wine from the supermarket and a $300 bottle of wine from a fancy restaurant (but then again, it might actually be the same bottle).

What sort of things should I be looking for in a "good" wine versus a lesser wine?

How do I know it's "good" other than simple taste preferences?

What does the age of the bottle tell someone who doesn't know much about wine?

From my limited experience, I know my favorites are chianti, merlot, and chardonnay, and I greatly prefer red to white.

Is this too difficult to answer without comparing and contrasting two wines via tasting?

[Phil]

I could go on for hours about this. I also wish the bad bottles of wine I've drank are as good as grape lifesavers At the end of the day, taste is whats important, but your taste will probably develop.

If you are starting out, find a market in your neighborhood and get to know the owner. Its better if its more gourmet. Ask their advice and start trying some different varietals outside your comfort zone. Its too bad that you don't have a Trader Joe's in Texas, but if you are a COSTCO member, they have great deals. I've never had a bad bottle of their Kirkland brand (always a distress sale Costco picks up cheap and relabels).

Merlot is OK, but sort of like the color beige is nice. There are some killer merlots, however, but it might be better if you came back to them after trying some new stuff.

Cabs are great, and they need to be in the Napa / Sonoma and even Mendocino. Don't ever buy a bottle that says "California". This means the winemaker simply purchased some grapes and bottled them under a brand. The grapes are probably from the Central Valley.

For a Napa cab you won't find anything under $10 that is any good. The good news is you can generally find a lot of labels under $20 that are good. If you have a big date or your parents are visiting, there are some really good labels in the $20-30.

Learn about Bordeauxs and Meritages. Basically the same idea (blending) and usually the best wines in the world.

As you learn more, you will find out that 'vintage' is a much more important component than 'age'.

Right now, my favs are Santa Rita Hills Pinots.

[kenberg]

Considering the amount of wine I have consumed over the years I should be more of a source of wine wisdom than I am. I blame it on my Minnesota upbringing where saying something such as "has a delicate but subtly entrancing aroma with just a hint of cherry" would bring blank stares or maybe get you seriously injured. So my advice is limited. However, fwiw, random thoughts:

Vintage does matter, as Phil says. Try to make a list of what you liked, and didn't like, including the details of vintage and so on. Neither my wife nor myself are really very good at lists and records, but we try and it is worthwhile. Also, there is something to this business of matching wine with food. Wine and cheese together can be a great improvement over either wine or cheese individually. There is a radio program on wine that I sometimes hear on the local NPR outlet that I think is national. In the afternoon, I don't recall the name. One of their more amusing suggestions: Avoid wines that have names that include animals. They claimed that blind taste testing showed a serious score difference when comparing similarly priced wines, some with animal names, some without. Not a 100% guide, I am sure. Some stores, high end stores as well as not so high end, have tastings. Sometimes (maybe not often but sometimes), the guy serving up the samples actually knows something. Chat with him/her. Of course his job is to sell you something but he can best do that by making some good suggestions. I think I have a book around somewhere. Perhaps I will actually read it someday.


It's sort of like bridge. Book learning helps, but getting out and doing, and then thinking back on the results, is really the recommended approach.

[Phil]

kenberg, on Aug 3 2009, 09:14 AM, said:

One of their more amusing suggestions: Avoid wines that have names that include animals. They claimed that blind taste testing showed a serious score difference when comparing similarly priced wines, some with animal names, some without.

Cheval Blanc would be an exception to this rule

[dicklont]

This year in France I drank a Chinon 2001 by Philippe Pion from his "veilles vignes", (over 50 year old) Cabernet Franc. Great stuff.
Mostly I prefer Spanish wine, carnache and tempranillo grapes.

My experience is that I try 6 different bottles in my price-class.
The one or two that we (my wife has an important say in this) like will be our housewine for the next 6-12 months, until we want a new taste.
Then we buy 6 new bottles and (suprise!) the priceclass gradually goes up.
The ability to taste and appreciate the different wines also develops, but maybe one day we will take lessons in wine-tasting.
Price and quality are related, but more expensive is not always better for my taste.

[jjbrr]

I know wines are sensitive to time and air and what not.

Can I buy a dozen bottles, open them all, try each to compare/contrast, take notes, and then finish them in the following weeks/months at my leisure? Obviously I'd learn a lot from tasting them all at once, but how much would the quality deteriorate when I go back and actually finish the bottle?

I think part of the problem is I drink a bottle and conclude that I like it, and then two weeks later have a different kind and conclude that I like that as well, but I have no way to actually compare the two. So some sort of tasting is the best way, I think, but I've been brought up understanding the importance of not wasting good drinks.

Of course you could suggest I just invite people over to my house for a wine tasting and I wouldn't have to waste it, but I'd be shocked if my friends were interested enough to make it viable. Wine tastings in Tennessee aren't exactly the popular thing to do.

Thoughts?

[Aberlour10]

jjbrr, on Aug 3 2009, 12:51 PM, said:

Thoughts?

I don't drink wine very often, so I went as a "beginner" ( I am still one ) a different way to find out: How can I get a relatively good wine in the price class +- 10 € /bottle, for that I dont need to be ashamed having guests at home. I visited several special wine-depots, talked about basics with the owners, decided for one of them, follow his advices at the small tasting-parties he organizes from time to time for people like me etc etc.

Robert

[ggwhiz]

Do some homework as suggested and then come to our Ottawa Canada Regional in early October.

There is a place called Vintages that has hundreds of Beers, Wines, Scotches etc. all sold by the glass. Some go in the $100 range per and they also have inexpensive blind tasting options of 8-10 for all of them.

I know nothing about the subject but this is one of my favorite haunts. I wish I could remember where I parked the car though......

[Phil]

jjbrr, on Aug 3 2009, 12:51 PM, said:

I know wines are sensitive to time and air and what not.

Can I buy a dozen bottles, open them all, try each to compare/contrast, take notes, and then finish them in the following weeks/months at my leisure? Obviously I'd learn a lot from tasting them all at once, but how much would the quality deteriorate when I go back and actually finish the bottle?

I think part of the problem is I drink a bottle and conclude that I like it, and then two weeks later have a different kind and conclude that I like that as well, but I have no way to actually compare the two. So some sort of tasting is the best way, I think, but I've been brought up understanding the importance of not wasting good drinks.

Of course you could suggest I just invite people over to my house for a wine tasting and I wouldn't have to waste it, but I'd be shocked if my friends were interested enough to make it viable. Wine tastings in Tennessee aren't exactly the popular thing to do.

Thoughts?

You don't need a dozen bottles for this. You need about 3 to 6. To really pick up on the different nuances, get the same varietal. A cab is different from a merlot which is different from a pinot, but if you have six pinots in front of you can really start to pick up subtle qualities of each. If you want more, than have a tasting party with some friends. Its a always a fun experiment to hide the labels and see if you can guess whats the costlier bottles and what the cheap bottles are.

Also, try to really hone in on how the wine changes as it is exposed to air. For a really good bottle, I have found that there is an optimum amount of time it needs to breathe. Too short and it is overly tannic, and the fruit stays 'wound up'. Too long, and the flavor leaves.

You can open a bottle of wine and reseal it, but in my experience it will only keep for about 2-3 weeks and that's if you use a pressurized cork.

[jjbrr]

So cliff notes of natural progression:

1) try several kinds to find out what i like

2) if i like pinots, try several pinots

3) try a pinot several times after different lengths of time breathing

4) try the same pinot from several vintages.


Is that accurate?

[Phil]

jjbrr, on Aug 3 2009, 02:14 PM, said:

So cliff notes of natural progression:

1) try several kinds to find out what i like

2) if i like pinots, try several pinots

3) try a pinot several times after different lengths of time breathing

4) try the same pinot from several vintages.


Is that accurate?

That would be my approach. Tell us how it goes

[matmat]

jjbrr, on Aug 3 2009, 02:14 PM, said:

So cliff notes of natural progression:

1) try several kinds to find out what i like

2) if i like pinots, try several pinots

3) try a pinot several times after different lengths of time breathing

4) try the same pinot from several vintages.


Is that accurate?

0) fortify with vodka and alter flavor with some juice. Enjoy.

[dicklont]

jjbrr, on Aug 3 2009, 07:51 PM, said:

I think part of the problem is I drink a bottle and conclude that I like it, and then two weeks later have a different kind and conclude that I like that as well, but I have no way to actually compare the two.

This is not a problem, now you have two wines that you like!

[jjbrr]

But my point is I probably like it simply because I'm too ignorant to know not to. Who doesn't like grape juice? My goal in this is to be able to recognize "fine" wine, to be able to distinguish a nice bottle of wine from the $5 sale at the local supermarket, and to expand my likes to grapes that I'm currently unaware of. I just need a point of reference when I try something new so that I know how to accurately categorize it in my mind.

I like flank steak just fine, but if filet mignon is available for only a few bucks more just nextdoor, well, I'd be a fool not to go for that. And if I learn about filet, then I'll be better placed to appreciate Kobe on those rare occasions.

And I feel like there is a lot of utility in learning about wines. Not only is it an interesting personal hobby, but there are social benefits as well (think girlfriend, boss, GIRLFRIEND'S PARENTS, etc).

Anyway, everyone's advice has been very valuable (well said, matmat). I'll keep you updated.

[Lobowolf]

jjbrr, on Aug 3 2009, 05:33 PM, said:

But my point is I probably like it simply because I'm too ignorant to know not to. Who doesn't like grape juice? My goal in this is to be able to recognize "fine" wine, to be able to distinguish a nice bottle of wine from the $5 sale at the local supermarket, and to expand my likes to grapes that I'm currently unaware of. I just need a point of reference when I try something new so that I know how to accurately categorize it in my mind.

I like flank steak just fine, but if filet mignon is available for only a few bucks more just nextdoor, well, I'd be a fool not to go for that. And if I learn about filet, then I'll be better placed to appreciate Kobe on those rare occasions.

And I feel like there is a lot of utility in learning about wines. Not only is it an interesting personal hobby, but there are social benefits as well (think girlfriend, boss, GIRLFRIEND'S PARENTS, etc).

Anyway, everyone's advice has been very valuable (well said, matmat). I'll keep you updated.

Don't overthink it.


http://abcnews.go.co...=3372578&page=1

[jjbrr]

Er. I know I'm not to judge a book by the cover, but a brief review of this site, namely the "Person of the Week" tab, suggests that among the top candidates are innkeepers at some random hotel, a female pilot of a helicopter, a Kansas girl, 7, who creates art for charity, and "the Gorilla Whisperer."

Of all the things going on in the world, they chose these? I hope you won't be offended if I respectfully say I think this site is too biased in "feel-good stories" to be credible as a news source.

The point is well-taken. But you've missed my point. My point is I'd like to learn what factors contributed to the judges' decision and be able to judge for myself. I'm sure if I tried that wine, or any and all of the other entries into the competition, my opinion would be "I like it."

Edit: And re-reading the article, they just keep calling it a "prestigious state fair." And the chief judge's name is "Pooch." And it was compared to commercial wines only, which I suspect means it was compared to other cheap wines. And when it was compared to a good wine, it lost. So I appreciate the story, but I'm skeptical it's what I need to be worrying about.

[Lobowolf]

jjbrr, on Aug 3 2009, 05:50 PM, said:

Er. I know I'm not to judge a book by the cover, but a brief review of this site, namely the "Person of the Week" tab, suggests that among the top candidates are innkeepers at some random hotel, a female pilot of a helicopter, a Kansas girl, 7, who creates art for charity, and "the Gorilla Whisperer."

Of all the things going on in the world, they chose these? I hope you won't be offended if I respectfully say I think this site is too biased in "feel-good stories" to be credible as a news source.

Dude, it's ABC News.

Respectully, they probably didn't screw up or get paid off to misrepresent the results.

I'm actually at work now, so I can't spend too much time searching for confirmation from BBC or NPR, but I do remember hearing this on KFI radio at the time, if that helps. I don't think they do Gorilla Whisperer stories.

[Phil]

You have the right attitude. It is an honor if you get chosen at a company function, or a bridge tournament with a wealthy client to pick out the wine and to go through the whole ritual.

I understand that to an outsider the "tasting the wine" thing can be rather silly.

[cherdanno]

Quote

Dude, it's ABC News. 

So?

Quote

Respectully, they probably didn't screw up or get paid off to misrepresent the results.

Well, sort of. The "2$ bottle beats 55$ bottle" test is a story that generates hits, the converse isn't.

[Phil]

Lobowolf, on Aug 3 2009, 06:00 PM, said:

jjbrr, on Aug 3 2009, 05:50 PM, said:

Er. I know I'm not to judge a book by the cover, but a brief review of this site, namely the "Person of the Week" tab, suggests that among the top candidates are innkeepers at some random hotel, a female pilot of a helicopter, a Kansas girl, 7, who creates art for charity, and "the Gorilla Whisperer."

Of all the things going on in the world, they chose these? I hope you won't be offended if I respectfully say I think this site is too biased in "feel-good stories" to be credible as a news source.

Dude, it's ABC News.

Respectully, they probably didn't screw up or get paid off to misrepresent the results.

I'm actually at work now, so I can't spend too much time searching for confirmation from BBC or NPR, but I do remember hearing this on KFI radio at the time, if that helps. I don't think they do Gorilla Whisperer stories.

Hey, they are just reporting.

I don't think this compares to the Judgment at Paris