[CSGibson]

please put these in order from strongest bid to weakest bid. All of this is in direct seat over a weak 2 in hearts

2♠
3♠
4♠
X then 3♠
X then 4♠
X then cue bid then 3/4♠

[awm]

CSGibson, on 2012-May-19, 23:33, said:

please put these in order from strongest bid to weakest bid. All of this is in direct seat over a weak 2 in hearts

2♠
3♠
4♠
X then 3♠
X then 4♠
X then cue bid then 3/4♠

X then cue then spades > X then 4♠ = direct 4♠ > X then 3♠ = 3♠.

Doubling first shows a different hand type for me; it's more of a flexible hand than a one-suiter. For example, X then 3♠ is typically 5233 or 51(43) with a big hand (typically around 18-21 hcp). A direct jump to 3♠ shows an excellent 6-card suit or better, with around 8-9 tricks (likely 16-19 or so hcp). I'd say the playing strength of 3♠ vs. X then 3♠ is about the same, though the double (with a flatter hand) normally has more in raw high cards.

[CSGibson]

Thanks. I had someone who is a local top level player tell me that 3♠ is stronger than 4♠, which seemed nutty.

[aguahombre]

CSGibson, on 2012-May-20, 09:08, said:

I had someone who is a local top level player tell me that 3♠ is stronger than 4♠, which seemed nutty.

Adam's rankings and comments seem about right. Direct 3♠ and 4♠ should be described by your top level player as "different", rather than stronger or weaker.

[rogerclee]

aguahombre, on 2012-May-20, 09:34, said:

Adam's rankings and comments seem about right. Direct 3♠ and 4♠ should be described by your top level player as "different", rather than stronger or weaker.

3S = I think I can make 4S, but I need some help
4S = I think I can make 4S, and I don't need very much help

4S is stronger, not merely different.

[benlessard]

X and a suit is not stronger its more flexible. It usually deny a good suit. For the rest you bid what you can make if partner bring you 1 card.

(2H)--???

4S = good spades 9 tricks (not preemptive)
3S = good spades 8 tricks
2S = decent spades could be AKxxxx + 1 side Ace so about at least 5 tricks

note that 4S is clearly stronger than 3S


X and 4S = S+ another suit not suitable for a michael but willing to play game vs a near yardbo.

AKxxxx
x
AK
AKxx

[JLOGIC]

Forcing to game is stronger than forcing to the 3 level. Forcing to the 3 level is stronger than 2S.

[aguahombre]

rogerclee, on 2012-May-20, 10:35, said:

3S = I think I can make 4S, but I need some help
4S = I think I can make 4S, and I don't need very much help

4S is stronger, not merely different.

Needing some, but not very much is very subtle. By "different", I was suggesting perhaps 3S would be one less spade or some other thing which makes the overall strength different on the ODR scale.

JLOGIC, on 2012-May-21, 12:20, said:

Forcing to game is stronger than forcing to the 3 level. Forcing to the 3 level is stronger than 2S.

This would be a truism in general. I just don't know how various people view the word "strong". Number of tricks we think we can take on offense? Convertable power? The word itself is not really helpful to me, except in context of strong/weak NT, strong/weak JS, top player/strong player/B-I, etc.

[Foxx]

X then cue bid then 3/4♠ - this shows a monster
X then 4♠ - this is a serious sequence, more so than an immediate 4♠
4♠ - sets spades as trump; does not need to be a giant in terms of high-card strength
3♠ - sets spades as trump and asks partner to go to game with anything more than his 7-point expectation
X then 3♠ - this suggests something around 17 points with 5-4-2-2 shape; five spades, two hearts, a doubleton in the minor partner bid, and four of the other minor
2♠

[Statto]

benlessard, on 2012-May-21, 08:02, said:

X and a suit is not stronger its more flexible.

I would agree after a 3 level or higher pre-empt, but after a weak 2 we still have a fair amount of space to establish level as well as strain, in conjunction with Lebensohl. So I would think that starting with X would imply a stronger hand defensively (i.e. much more HCP).

[JLOGIC]

Xing and cuebidding 3H then bidding 3S would be interesting lol. Guess they doubled it.

[benlessard]

Quote

I would agree after a 3 level or higher pre-empt, but after a weak 2 we still have a fair amount of space to establish level as well as strain, in conjunction with Lebensohl. So I would think that starting with X would imply a stronger hand defensively (i.e. much more HCP).

AKJx
x
AKxxxx
xx

(2H)--??
Do you prefer to overcall 3D or to X ?

If you X and partner bid 2Nt or 3C (lebensohl or not) wich do you think is more frequent ... a flexible hand with 5/6D & 4H with some extras (all offshape X need some slight extras IMO) or a too strong for 3D overcall ? IMO hands too strong for overcall are a bit rare, while hands with 2 suits are fairly common.

[Statto]

I overcall 3♦ on that hand.