[gnasher]

Isn't it standard that 2♣-2♦;4♣ sets trumps and demands a cue-bid?

[Cyberyeti]

gnasher, on 2012-May-03, 15:08, said:

Isn't it standard that 2♣-2♦;4♣ sets trumps and demands a cue-bid?

Yeah, but do you only cue aces ? Ks don't really cut it, opening 4N seems better.

[gnasher]

Cyberyeti, on 2012-May-03, 15:57, said:

Yeah, but do you only cue aces ? Ks don't really cut it, opening 4N seems better.

No, I'd expect him to cue-bid a king too. But on the next round I expect him to tell me how many keycards he's got, because that's what I'm going to ask him.

Obviously it's better to open 4NT if you're playing it as a direct ace-ask and you know what the responses mean, because a 2♣ opening is more vulnerable to interference. I was just discussing ways to cope when you don't know what a 4NT opening means, or you know that it means something else.

[Cyberyeti]

gnasher, on 2012-May-03, 16:04, said:

No, I'd expect him to cue-bid a king too. But on the next round I expect him to tell me how many keycards he's got, because that's what I'm going to ask him.

Obviously it's better to open 4NT if you're playing it as a direct ace-ask and you know what the responses mean, because a 2♣ opening is more vulnerable to interference. I was just discussing ways to cope when you don't know what a 4NT opening means, or you know that it means something else.

How are you going to ask for aces ? for more than a few people 4♦ is the ace ask in clubs, and 4N is something else, so this also risks it getting murky, particularly in a partnership that isn't 100% sure what it's doing.

[mgoetze]

Cyberyeti, on 2012-May-03, 16:17, said:

How are you going to ask for aces ? for more than a few people 4♦ is the ace ask in clubs, and 4N is something else, so this also risks it getting murky, particularly in a partnership that isn't 100% sure what it's doing.

Sorry but partnerships that aren't 100% sure of what they're doing yet nevertheless play 4♦ as ace-asking in clubs are not worthy of our consideration, even if 2 or 3 forum regulars fall into this category.

I humbly submit that even if you do sometimes play 4♦ as ace-asking in clubs you should not be doing so on this particular auction.

[bluecalm]

One problem I see is that if you have agreement "always 1403" then asking for aces puts you too high in case partner doesn't have any.
The hand is super simple for anybody who plays standard blackwood or have natural agreement that if very strong asks a weak hand then it's 0314.

We have many non-serious partnerships (with some very serious players) in this tournament so no surprise hey got confused on this one imo.

[Cyberyeti]

mgoetze, on 2012-May-03, 16:21, said:

Sorry but partnerships that aren't 100% sure of what they're doing yet nevertheless play 4♦ as ace-asking in clubs are not worthy of our consideration, even if 2 or 3 forum regulars fall into this category.

I humbly submit that even if you do sometimes play 4♦ as ace-asking in clubs you should not be doing so on this particular auction.

Totally agreed on the second line.

This appeared to me to be a partnership of 2 good players thrown together at close to the last minute. Am I wrong in this assessment ?

It is entirely credible that 2 players who always play kickback agree it with some discussion about circumstances but this one doesn't come up. It appears 2♣-2♦-4N didn't come up and possibly neither did 4N.

[aguahombre]

bluecalm, on 2012-May-03, 16:33, said:

One problem I see is that if you have agreement "always 1403" then asking for aces puts you too high in case partner doesn't have any.

That would be a pretty silly agreement...no upside at all, when no trump has been established. I assure you if partner opens with Wood, I won't have 3 or 4.

[bluecalm]

Quote

that would be a pretty silly agreement...no upside at all, when no trump has been established.

Many partnerships including some elite ones don't play blackwood or any other ace-asking bid if there are no trumps established.
Opening 4N as blackwood requires agreements. Without any I would guess it's minors at least in area where I live. Looking at random CC (Lauria-Versace) it's also minors for them. It's at least very risky to open with that if you didn't discuss it.

That being said, playing 1430 when very strong hand asks a weak one doesn't sound like a good idea but 1430 in general might be good and to have exceptions here you need a lot of discussion/experience as imo this is very low priority after other more important stuff in the system. (Opening 4N is probably like 1000th thing I would want to agree on).

[Cyberyeti]

bluecalm, on 2012-May-04, 00:53, said:

Many partnerships including some elite ones don't play blackwood or any other ace-asking bid if there are no trumps established.
Opening 4N as blackwood requires agreements. Without any I would guess it's minors at least in area where I live. Looking at random CC (Lauria-Versace) it's also minors for them. It's at least very risky to open with that if you didn't discuss it.

Agreed, but I can't imagine too many experts who would assume undiscussed that an opening 4N was anything other than the old style specific ace ask (not Blackwood), however I can see the situation where you thought you had discussed it and thought it was something else so didn't open it.

[mgoetze]

Nice set, Justin.

[JLOGIC]

30 boards is plenty, vamos!

[Phil]

JLOGIC, on 2012-May-04, 13:27, said:

30 boards is plenty, vamos!

You guys had a great set. Loved the suicide squeeze. Just as importantly The Man did a great job nullifying it.

[neilkaz]

Phil, on 2012-May-04, 13:47, said:

You guys had a great set. Loved the suicide squeeze. Just as importantly The Man did a great job nullifying it.

Yeah...nice hand !! TY for great commentary, Phil...and all the best to Justin's team in the final two rounds.

[JLOGIC]

Phil, on 2012-May-04, 13:47, said:

You guys had a great set. Loved the suicide squeeze. Just as importantly The Man did a great job nullifying it.

The suicide squeeze was much much much easier than the nullifying part, wd hemant!

[mgoetze]

Way too many partscores here, have they reverted to hand-dealing? Unfortunately, Kevin didn't maximize the gain from Justin's psyche but at least Meck asked for their phone numbers.

[Phil]

Cmon baby one time.

[JLOGIC]

you feelin it? you feelin it????

[y66]

That was a very exciting match.

[JLOGIC]

Wasn't meant to be, gg.