fantoni-nunes system
#21 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2004-November-12, 00:22
#22
Posted 2004-November-12, 01:36
I think the fair way to measure their performance is to look at the pairs' individual score. We can judge from their butler score in the round robin that they are actually by far the most consistent Italian pairs. They are way up in the score with 1.07 imps while B-D is only 0.52 and L-V only 0.41. Moreover, they are the runaway leader in their strong group (their group consists of the final champion, the 1st runner up and 2nd runner up).
Further to strengthen the fact they did play very good is that in their round of 16 vs USA, it was because the two sessions that they played did they win over USA (the two sessions they participated Italy won 27:4 and 54:17 which is the final set and they overtook USA as the result of this set)
#23
Posted 2004-November-12, 01:40
#24
Posted 2004-November-12, 11:44
Jlall, on Nov 12 2004, 06:22 AM, said:
Well, is this USA team the best of the world? I really doubt so. Even China's team
almost blitzed them at round robin stage.
Also, two copies of myself mean no misunderstandings in bidding and defensive
signals, that's a huge edge. You lose a match usually not because opps play
too well, usually because you have had too many misunderstandings in your partnership.
The third thing, I have probably the one of the best 2/1 systems in the world.
The last thing, I might not be the best now, but who knows in ten or twentry years what will hapeen.
Still, they win many events doesn't mean their system is superio. If a system has
many holes, it can't last long in my humble opinion.
#25
Posted 2004-November-12, 12:01
Per Jun-yi:
Well, is this USA team the best of the world? I really doubt so. Even China's team
almost blitzed them at round robin stage.
___________________________________________
I think you can look at a lot of the RR results and draw a lot of erroneous conclusions. The fact that China had a good match with them over 20 boards doesn't mean squat. See how they do over 120 and call me.
___________________________________________
Also, two copies of myself mean no misunderstandings in bidding and defensive
signals, that's a huge edge. You lose a match usually not because opps play
too well, usually because you have had too many misunderstandings in your partnership.
___________________________________________
Hogwash! If you have ever practiced with your favorite partner, he is making a call looking at his own hand. You make calls looking at your hand. Whenever my pard and I have a mix-up, I can't tell you how many times I've said, "Your interpretation looks correct from YOUR side".
So, just becuase you are bidding with a clone of yourself doesn't mean that you are immune to misunderstandings.
Even Meckwell has bidding misunderstandings; its impossible, not to mention impractical to have agreements for every conceivable situation.
___________________________________________
The third thing, I have probably the one of the best 2/1 systems in the world.
___________________________________________
I will look forward to the book with interest.
___________________________________________
The last thing, I might not be the best now, but who knows in ten or twentry years what will hapeen.
___________________________________________
Well, I hope you get involved in cloning research, since you will need a team of 5 copies of yourself to accomplish this, because, with this attitude, you rate to have a tough time getting teammates.
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Still, they win many events doesn't mean their system is superio.
___________________________________________
I'd say winning an Olympiad is about the only proof I need.
___________________________________________
If a system has many holes, it can't last long in my humble opinion.
___________________________________________
You and I sure have a different idea about what 'humble' means.
#26
Posted 2004-November-12, 12:20
pclayton, on Nov 12 2004, 06:01 PM, said:
Per Jun-yi:
Well, is this USA team the best of the world? I really doubt so. Even China's team
almost blitzed them at round robin stage.
___________________________________________
I think you can look at a lot of the RR results and draw a lot of erroneous conclusions. The fact that China had a good match with them over 20 boards doesn't mean squat. See how they do over 120 and call me.
___________________________________________
Also, two copies of myself mean no misunderstandings in bidding and defensive
signals, that's a huge edge. You lose a match usually not because opps play
too well, usually because you have had too many misunderstandings in your partnership.
___________________________________________
Hogwash! If you have ever practiced with your favorite partner, he is making a call looking at his own hand. You make calls looking at your hand. Whenever my pard and I have a mix-up, I can't tell you how many times I've said, "Your interpretation looks correct from YOUR side".
So, just becuase you are bidding with a clone of yourself doesn't mean that you are immune to misunderstandings.
Even Meckwell has bidding misunderstandings; its impossible, not to mention impractical to have agreements for every conceivable situation.
___________________________________________
The third thing, I have probably the one of the best 2/1 systems in the world.
___________________________________________
I will look forward to the book with interest.
___________________________________________
The last thing, I might not be the best now, but who knows in ten or twentry years what will hapeen.
___________________________________________
Well, I hope you get involved in cloning research, since you will need a team of 5 copies of yourself to accomplish this, because, with this attitude, you rate to have a tough time getting teammates.
___________________________________________
Still, they win many events doesn't mean their system is superio.
___________________________________________
I'd say winning an Olympiad is about the only proof I need.
___________________________________________
If a system has many holes, it can't last long in my humble opinion.
___________________________________________
You and I sure have a different idea about what 'humble' means.
Well, your words may sound insulting to some people, but I don't mind them at all. All I want to say is to present my thoughts in a neutral way, even when I talked about myself. I never had an implication that I am strong, I am smart, my partners or teammates are not so good.
in that sense, cloning doesn't help either, because environment changes people a lot. All I want to say is that everybody can reach to the top of the level if they work hard and minimize their partnership misunderstandings if they treat their partners as themselves.
Still the last thing I want to present is that a team of 4 consisting only B/D, L/V can probably win those things as well. If you take the matter this way, you would pretty much understand what I was talking about.
#27
Posted 2004-November-17, 04:17
The USA could have sent a great team to the Olympiad but they didn't send their best team (their unwillingness to go to Istanbul is a big chunk in the minus column for me). If you don't send the best team, although still stronger almost all of the other teams, it is not very surprising that other top nations that DO send their best team do better.
I think it is good that others get a chance as well (albeit for the wrong reasons) but then don't come and say they are the best team in the world as they are not the best team in the USA.
#28 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2004-November-17, 16:57
#29
Posted 2004-November-17, 17:08
Jlall, on Nov 17 2004, 11:57 PM, said:
If if if, blablabla...
I know all about if-structures: they usually have a "then" and an "else". In all these hypothetical statements, all I read is "ELSE nothing special happened". If the "then" is never applicable, why waste your time with it anyway?
If we played bidding systems we play now 40 years ago, we'd win all events. So what?
If the USA had beaten Italy ... but they DIDN'T! Live with it.
#30 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2004-November-17, 19:10
#31
Posted 2004-November-17, 19:16
That is insulting to the rest of the world.
Are you campaigning for a job in the State Department
Peter (U.S.A.)
#32
Posted 2004-November-17, 19:52
pbleighton, on Nov 17 2004, 05:16 PM, said:
That is insulting to the rest of the world.
Are you campaigning for a job in the State Department
Peter (U.S.A.)
I don't think its insulting at all, I think its factual. Would you have taken 1:3 odds that either Italy or the US would win? I would.
This has nothing to do with nationalism, in my opinion.
#33 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2004-November-18, 02:58
#34
Posted 2004-November-18, 04:38
Justin, now don't get into this 'The USA is the best country in the world' stuff.' No one believes that anyway.
I guess only in the USA people realized it was between them and the Italians. This might have been true had their strongest lineup played. But as you know they were unwilling to play in Istanbul which is a very safe place unless you are an English soccer fan.
As it was the players on the team were among the best of the world, but guess what: so were some other teams! Had the USA beaten the Italians I think my list of favorites would be a close tie between 3 teams:
* China (It's not just in economy they will overtake everyone, it seems in bridge as well)
* Netherlands (they beat Italy in the Round Robin, perhaps they can keep Italy from taking a 7th European Title in a row?)
* USA (Even without Meckwell and co. they are a great team)
#35 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2004-November-18, 05:22
#36
Posted 2004-November-18, 06:19
Then
"Now perhaps you dont realize the opposite is true, you are very anti-american (i know this from the e2025 forums), and do not like to acknowledge that perhaps we had a team better than other non-italian teams. You may not realize but on average europeans are much more anti-american than americans are anti-european. Im done with this thread, its a joke."
Exit the Ugly American, who took offense.
Peter (U.S.A.)
#37
Posted 2004-November-18, 07:30
#38
Posted 2004-November-18, 07:43
Fantoni-Nunes
As to their playing ability raised earlier. Their Butler score was by far and away the best on a very good italian team, and I think the highest in the 2004 olympiad.
Ben
#39
Posted 2004-November-18, 09:06
For example: How do you continue after 1♣ - weak response? What do you do with the 18-20 balanced hand? (1♣ - 1x - 1NT = 15 - 17 balanced)