[gorvacofin]

1♠(2♣)2♦
2NT (no) 3♠

Hi all. Playing SAYC, is 3S forcing? Would the same apply without the 2c overcall?

Thanks.

[awm]

Yes, 3♠ is forcing.

SAYC does not distinguish between three and four-card limit raises in the way that some other systems do. If you have an invitational raise of partner's major, you support immediately by bidding 3M.

[gorvacofin]

Thanks, appreciate it.

[aguahombre]

Remember, though..gorvacofin: you asked about the Yellow Card, which has a rigid set of agreements. "Standard" players might have differing views on what you asked, but are not playing SAYC even though they name it as such.

[gorvacofin]

aguahombre, on 2012-January-02, 00:02, said:

Remember, though..gorvacofin: you asked about the Yellow Card, which has a rigid set of agreements. "Standard" players might have differing views on what you asked, but are not playing SAYC even though they name it as such.

Yes. As a matter of preference, do you guys think playing - change of suit, jump-raise - in uncontested auctions is best to show specifically a 3-card limit raise, or is it better to lump the 3/4-card limit raises into the same bid and treat the former sequence as forcing? (Assuming you don't want to play 2/1 and bundle the 3-card raise into 1NT).

[blackshoe]

You can play Forcing NT in a Standard American context.

It's best, I think, to differentiate between three and four card support in your limit raises, and between "balanced" and "unbalanced" as well. This requires quite a bit of work and some artificiality, though, so may be more than you want to take on when you're just starting out. Heh. I have partners who are far beyond "just starting out", and they don't want to make the effort.

Simplest is probably to treat both 1M-3M and 1M-2X-2Y-3M as limit raises, with the distinction that the latter has a good side suit. You don't know whether responder has 3 or 4 trumps, or where his shortage may be, or even if he has a shortage, but knowing about a good side suit (or no good side suit) may help in the judgement whether to go on to game.

[awm]

Disagree with blackshoe, as playing 1M-2x-2y-3M as not forcing makes it impossible to have sensible slam auctions while giving you very little benefit (in fact you will probably lose more by helping opponents defend than you ever gain by showing the side suit).