[gartinmale]

I'm not really sure what the right forum for this question is, but I'll give it a shot here. My teammates and I were discussing this over beers after a Swiss and wondered what other people thought.

Suppose you play something like 48 hands a week with a competent partner against competent opponents. There are 35 different possible contracts that one could play redoubled. Let's assume that you and your partner only redouble/play redoubled contracts when you think it is correct, and do not just redouble randomly. Since the form of scoring matters, we'll say it is something like IMP pairs or teams.

What contracts do you expect to play redoubled most often? Least often? (We thought 1NT and either 1C or 5NT respectively).

What's the over/under on the number of different redoubled contracts (out of 35) you will make in a year? Ten years? Fifty years?

We sort of thought if you played long enough, and redoubled at IMPs whenever you thought turning the cube had positive expected value, you would probably make many of the 4 and 5-level suited contracts redoubled, maybe rarely a slam. You would likely make 1NT and 3NT redoubled as well. You might occasionally make a 2-level contract when they double you, you make an SOS redouble, and partner, with a pleasant surprise in hand or dummy, leaves it in. But it seems likely that you will never make 1C redoubled, on the basis that no one will ever let you play 1C redoubled unless they very much want to defend, nor 5NT redoubled, on the basis that it's a hard contract to reach even undoubled.

(I can think of only one time each 1C and 5NT were played at my table in the last year. Neither was doubled).

[Free]

Hard to say, because if you pre alert this to your opponents, they will double a lot less...

[aguahombre]

gartinmale, on 2011-November-07, 05:16, said:

But it seems likely that you will never make 1C redoubled, on the basis that no one will ever let you play 1C redoubled unless they very much want to defend.

It is likely that WE will never make 1C redoubled. But twice in my lifetime the NV opponents have achieved +430 in 1CXX making two. Our vulnerable selves would have been minus 800 on a scramble, and we pushed with the 3NT people. The key was the unpopular notion that if advancer doesn't take out a takeout double, he doesn't want to. (E.G., XX XX XXX JXXXXX).

[gnasher]

In the past year I've made one redoubled contract and failed to defeat two. They were:
3♣xx+2, when someone doubled an artificial call and I happened to have loads of them
1NTxx=, when we doubled a 12-14 notrump and they were playing an escape mechanism that forced them to play it redoubled.
3NTxx=, in an unfamilar partnership with sylistic differences, where the opponents were playing doubt-showing redoubles.

It's years since I last played or defended a redoubled suit game.

[BunnyGo]

I just played 3NTXX + 2 tonight at the club, but it was against an LOL who 1) didn't open her 7 card club suit to the AK and then 2) doubled my ice cold 3NT bid.

So, I guess the word "competent" didn't apply here.

[ggwhiz]

Many years ago after p - 1♣ my partner doubled with 7 solid ♣ and out. Got the redouble - float.

There must have been others but I don't recall any in a couple of decades.

Later a different pard specifically told me that we play pass of a redouble to play.

It went p - 1♦ and I doubled on a real piece of cheese. Redouble back to me and I ran like a dog. Partner eventually set us down in 3♦ plus 1.

It appears that my lack of redoubled experience is caused by me.

[Cyberyeti]

A couple that didn't make.

Good player psyches 1♥, x - xx - p he reasons that the doubler never sits this and passes and is disappointed when the doubler with a 16 count and 6 solid trumps passes it out.

Team mates in a county match have a misunderstanding in a 1Nx auction and proceed to play 2♣xx with the opening leader holding AKQJxxxx of them.

I had a near miss of something truly enormous. Partner opens 1♠-x- and I held 7 small spades and an ace, so smoothly redoubled, p-p- and RHO had a 5 minute think before finally pulling it, so I only got 790 in 4♠x rather than a true telephone number.

A couple of my other comedy efforts:

xxxx, xxxx, AQ10x, A

1♣ was opened on my right, I found a revolting double, redouble - p - p and I decided to stay fixed (maybe partner's got some trumps and they'll only make 1). Anyway, it turned out partner had 6 clubs and his side AQ10 was over dummy's KJ and my AQ10 was over declarer's KJ, and when the smoke cleared (declarer then lost his K♣ to my ace with partner having most of the other large ones) this was an unexpected 4 figure plus score.

This one comes from a national knockout match playing against my county captain. It was a 24 board match and the score was 75-73 so this wasn't the only board with IMPs flying everywhere. I opened 1♥, and partner (after I made as many minimum bids as I could) bid 3N, doubled by the captain. Partner eyed up his 16 count with secure stops in every side suit and suspected I'd psyched, but felt if he didn't redouble some questions might be asked. I had a 9 count with 6 hearts, and 3Nxx+1 was 1400 the hard way.

[Phil]

Yesterday I held a 3334 13. 1♣ by me, 1♥, 2♦ by pard and a very vulnerable 2N by my weak RHO. Insta xx by LHO and auto pass by RHO.

Turns out LHO held a 6 count with a 6-4. RHO held a monster 17 AKxxxx of clubs. Pard didnt have her bid either.

I pulled to 3♦ and RHO bids 3N. Drifted off 1.

[EricK]

Just a couple of hours ago this happened:

---

Obviously LHO liked his hand a little too much after my pre-empt. His partner had ♦Jxxx and not much else . But 3 off redoubled was a top for us (3 off doubled would have been joint top with another pair). I think he reckoned the redouble was "free" (i.e. if 5♦X goes off it's a bad result anyway) - although by the same reasoning there's not much upside as far as I can see.

[Mbodell]

I've made 3♣XX (we had a higher scoring slam double dummy but nearly no one found it, so this was a top score) when the opponents doubled for lead in a potentially artificial call.
I've made 1♣XX with 2 over tricks red at teams against a LOL team at the club.
I've tried 4♣XX-1 when we had another game but no slam at teams (ouch).
I've played 1ntXX making and down (although the down was at MP where partner was psyching the XX knowing we were dead if he couldn't trick one of them in to running)

[aguahombre]

Mbodell, on 2011-November-08, 01:39, said:

I've made 1♣XX with 2 over tricks red at teams against a LOL team at the club.

Paul Soloway needed to call the Director in the late 80's to find out what 1♠XX, VUL and three overtricks was. His teammates took it with good humor, even though the K.O match was lost by 4 IMPS.

[Free]

I remember me playing 2♦xx-3 during an imp match. I had ♦KQJT98 and out, favorable the auction went 1♠-pass-2♣-2♦;pass-pass-Dbl-pass;pass-RDbl-all pass. He had a 4=4=0=5 with ♥K and ♣K and wanted to SOS RDbl (but to what suits???)... Had he passed, we would've gained a few imps because opps obviously had 3NT. I thought it was safe for maximum -3 NV, man was I wrong!

[gartinmale]

aguahombre, on 2011-November-07, 07:31, said:

It is likely that WE will never make 1C redoubled. But twice in my lifetime the NV opponents have achieved +430 in 1CXX making two. Our vulnerable selves would have been minus 800 on a scramble, and we pushed with the 3NT people. The key was the unpopular notion that if advancer doesn't take out a takeout double, he doesn't want to. (E.G., XX XX XXX JXXXXX).

Not trying to necro this thread (self-necro? sorry!) but this past Thursday at the club partner made 1Hxx with an overtrick and it was actually sensible: partner opened 1H in third seat white on red, righty had a completely normal double, I had a completely normal redouble, passed back to righty, who correctly gauged that any bid (even 1S!) was going for more than we could get in 1Hxx. Indeed, our +720 was only 8 on a 12 top.

So I stand corrected. 1Hxx is entirely possible to score up in a reasonable manner, even at matchpoints. Hopefully in another six months I'll be writing about 1Cxx, just in.

[aguahombre]

The only way the doubler can "judge" to leave 1 of a suit XX in, is with our agreements mentioned above about partner's pass (or a strange double to begin with). You were unlucky to encounter a rare pair with those agreements, and lucky that other pairs in your direction were unable to stop and redouble with the (unknown) hands. 8 on a 12 is truly a strange matchpoint result for this situation.

I will assume the reason for the 8 instead of more was not because you played it a couple tricks worse than others

[bluecalm]

2C redoubled is quite common because of people aggressively doubling stayman or checkback.
Other than that I think 3N and 4M got to be close.

[gartinmale]

Aguahombre, I think partner played it the best he could on the 6-1 trump break . I don't really consider it that unlucky; the 8 on a 12 top is compensated by the story!

bluecalm, on 2012-May-12, 16:28, said:

2C redoubled is quite common because of people aggressively doubling stayman or checkback.
Other than that I think 3N and 4M got to be close.

Yes, that's a good point. It's supported by my own experience too; my partnerships have played and made 3NTxx, 4♥xx, and 4♠xx.

Transfer bids can be doubled and redoubled too. Maybe 1♣xx and 1♦xx are slightly more likely than 1♥xx and 1♠xx because the strong club players can have similar auctions? I know there are partnerships out there for whom a double of a strong club shows clubs.

So perhaps in practice, something like

Not unusual: 4M, 5m, 3NT, 1NT (redoubled for blood at teams)
Opportunistic: 2♣, 2♦, 2♥: (Stayman, checkback, or transfers redoubled)
Medium-rare: 1m, 1M (as in the above discussion)
Rare: 6/7-level contracts (speculative/Lightner doubles redoubled for blood)

That still leaves 2♠, 2NT, 3m, 3M, 4m, 5M, and 5NT.

I think if I'm ever in 5NTx, I shall have to redouble just because of this thread. Maybe we should start pre-alerting that.

[Mbodell]

I had the chance to play in 2nt XX in a district GNT (flight B) qualifier. We were playing the favorites (a couple of US Juniors on the opponents) and were up ~30 IMPs at the half (28 board match), and had had a couple of good results in the second half, and all red I dealt and preempted 2M which went:

2M (2NT) X (P!) - P forces XX
P (XX) P (P)

I chickened out and pulled to 3M which was down 1. 2NT would have been down several, but I wasn't willing to risk it given state of the match. The opponents were swinging and we did hold on to win the match by ~30 IMPs.

[aguahombre]

Mbodell, on 2012-May-13, 01:17, said:

I had the chance to play in 2nt XX in a district GNT (flight B) qualifier. We were playing the favorites (a couple of US Juniors on the opponents) and were up ~30 IMPs at the half (28 board match), and had had a couple of good results in the second half, and all red I dealt and preempted 2M which went:

2M (2NT) X (P!) - P forces XX
P (XX) P (P)

I chickened out and pulled to 3M which was down 1. 2NT would have been down several, but I wasn't willing to risk it given state of the match. The opponents were swinging and we did hold on to win the match by ~30 IMPs.

I must not have read this correctly. Certainly you didn't mean the only person at the table with no say in matters took a position.

[FrancesHinden]

gartinmale, on 2012-May-12, 18:31, said:

Not unusual: 4M, 5m, 3NT, 1NT (redoubled for blood at teams)
Opportunistic: 2♣, 2♦, 2♥: (Stayman, checkback, or transfers redoubled)
Medium-rare: 1m, 1M (as in the above discussion)
Rare: 6/7-level contracts (speculative/Lightner doubles redoubled for blood)

In my (admittedly somewhat limited) experience, the most popular redoubled contracts are

3NT and 6-level contracts

and the second most popular are 2-level ones (as you say, artificial bids redoubled), following by 3-level artificial bids redoubled.

I've definitely played (and made) more 6-level redoubled contracts than anything else, mainly because (i) Lightner doubles are usually speculative to start with and (ii) the odds heavily favour redoubling and you are not expecting to be more than one off.
3NTxx usually means someone has been having a bit of a laugh at the table, but they do come up.

I recently made 1Hxx+2, but they should have pulled it, so I'm not sure that counts as 'competent' opponents (at the 1-level, it is often cheaper to remove, say, defending 1Hxx to playing 2Hx your way)
I once went for 800 in 2Sx to discover my teams were +960 in 3Sxx and had stupidly failed to make the overtrick.

[Quantumcat]

I defended a redoubled contract last weekend for +1000 (should actually have been +1600, but oh well), against a big-name player, I won't say his name because that would be rude :-), but his sponsor had terrible handwriting and he thought he opened 1C when it was actually 1S.

To contribute to the thread, 5-major is probably a likely contract to be redoubled, if somebody tried a Striped-Tailed Ape double and the opponents were not fooled.

I've also played 2 1NTXX contracts in my life - I open a 10-12 notrump and the opponents think that means they can double on any random 12-count. Partner passes showing happy or nowhere to run, the opp passes thinking 7 HCP is plenty to pass with, I redouble showing a 5-card suit, pard passes saying he's happy, opp passes thinking he's not going to fall for this ploy to make him feel nervous and rescue us ... and so we play 1NTXX, one just making the other with three overtricks (doubler had an 11-count under pard's 15-count, opp passed thinking he can't bid with 2 points). Unfortunately the 3 overtricks was in a pairs event :-(

I can imagine 1-of a suit could get redoubled sometimes too - there's a takeout double, a redouble meaning whatever, a pass because they think they are not forced to bid anymore, and the doubler passes thinking his pard has made a penalty pass.