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What's your call?

#1 User is offline   rduran1216 

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Posted 2011-July-12, 20:31

consider yourself in a simpler time.

You are playing 1950's standard with negative doubles.


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#2 User is offline   semeai 

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Posted 2011-July-12, 20:55

Am I misreading this, or have I answered 1 Ace to Blackwood and heard partner sign off in 5? If so, it seems pretty normal to pass.
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#3 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-July-12, 23:17

I think OP is wondering about the Spade King being a surprise card. My guess is opener was planning for that finesse to be onside because of the 3D preempt. Therefore, we are still off 2 bullets. (AQTXXX KQJXX X X?)
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#4 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2011-July-13, 03:15

As far as I know (my parents weren't even born yet), 4NT in 1950 was used to check if we don't miss 2 Aces (and nothing else). So 5 is a signoff. I'll pass.

Oh btw, did they already play negative doubles? I thought Dbl should've been penalty...
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#5 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2011-July-13, 07:27

Aye Aye Captain..."Pass"
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#6 User is offline   daveharty 

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Posted 2011-July-13, 10:23

View PostFree, on 2011-July-13, 03:15, said:

Oh btw, did they already play negative doubles?

No, but they played Sputnik doubles. So named by Al Roth I believe, although I don't think it was his idea originally. Not sure when "Sputnik" changed to "negative".
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#7 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-July-13, 10:30

View Postdaveharty, on 2011-July-13, 10:23, said:

No, but they played Sputnik doubles. So named by Al Roth I believe, although I don't think it was his idea originally. Not sure when "Sputnik" changed to "negative".

As I recall, the two names were almost simultaneous. But, I only started playing in '60.
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#8 User is offline   daveharty 

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Posted 2011-July-13, 10:40

View Postaguahombre, on 2011-July-13, 10:30, said:

As I recall, the two names were almost simultaneous. But, I only started playing in '60.

My understanding was that Roth named them almost immediately after the launch of Sputnik in '57, in order to mark the beginning of a "Space Age" in bridge. But you could be right.
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#9 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-July-13, 10:57

Mystery solved:

http://en.wikipedia....Negative_double

Negative double preceeded Sputnik by more than 20 years; Then came Alvin and Toby's renaming.
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#10 User is offline   daveharty 

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Posted 2011-July-13, 11:05

View Postaguahombre, on 2011-July-13, 10:57, said:

Mystery solved:

http://en.wikipedia....Negative_double

Negative double preceeded Sputnik by more than 20 years; Then came Alvin and Toby's renaming.

That's what I get for being born in 1970.
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#11 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2011-July-13, 13:49

View Postaguahombre, on 2011-July-13, 10:57, said:

Mystery solved:

http://en.wikipedia....Negative_double

Negative double preceeded Sputnik by more than 20 years; Then came Alvin and Toby's renaming.


I don't think that's what the Wikipedia article says. The aritcle says that:
- Before about 1930, a "negative" double was a takeout double of an opening bid.
- Between 1930 and 1957, the term "negative double" was unused.
- After 1957, the terms "negative double" and "Sputnik double" were used to mean a takeout double of an overcall.

Every source I have seen implies that before 1957 everybody played penalty doubles of overcalls.

That is, Roth and Stone didn't rename an existing convention - they invented it, and then gave it a name that had previously been used for something else.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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