[wyman]

---

1) Agree with W?
2) Agree with E?
a) If no, 4D?

3) How would you and your partner bid this over (1C)-P-(1S)?

edit: thanks to cascade for posting the hand

[mfa1010]

East is not bidding his hand, he is guessing.

East should take-out double 2♠ to get his values across. When he decided to pass it is very hard to catch up later, but passing again was not quite the way to do it...

West has other options than 2♥. 2NT or 4♥ were also possible, but 2♥ is ok.

[Cascade]

It is seldom right with 13 hcp to pass when partner overcalls at the two-level. This is not one of those hands.

1♣ Pass 1♠ 2♥
2♠ Dbl Pass 4♦
...

on our way to 5/6♦

[Cascade]

Here is the hand - since i found it awkward having to open a link

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[TWO4BRIDGE]

wyman, on 2010-November-01, 09:42, said:

hand here


3) How would you and your partner bid this over (1C)-P-(1S)?

4th seat should bid Michaels.
Common practice when opps have bid two suits is to have 2C! = Michaeals and 2S = natural.

Anyway, Opener may still bid 2S ( since they apparently aren't playing Support DBLs ) but at least you've gotten your 2 red suits in .
Partner ( Advancer ) will bid 3D ( over 2S ) and you could bid 3H to show additional length .
This might be enough to induce partner to bid 4H with his stiff Q.

[wyman]

mfa1010, on 2010-November-01, 10:06, said:

East is not bidding his hand, he is guessing.

East should take-out double 2♠ to get his values across. When he decided to pass it is very hard to catch up later, but passing again was not quite the way to do it...

West has other options than 2♥. 2NT or 4♥ were also possible, but 2♥ is ok.

Embarrassing that it did not occur to me at the table to X 2S. That would indeed make life a lot easier. I thought I had a very tricky call at the end. Whatever I did seemed like a guess. Partner could (I thought) easily be 1=6=4=2 and not wanting to sell to 2S, and I didn't know how much of my hand partner had already bid. Surely I have more than he's expecting, but how much? Anyway, thanks.

[wank]

er....why aren't people being harsher on east? i'm assuming people think it's bad form to speak ill of the dead - rigor mortis is the only explanation for failing to bid.

passing 2S with 13 high opposite a partner who made a 2 level overcall opposite a passed hand is terrible.

passing 3D with 13 high, 4 card support and a partner who's bid on his own upto the 3 level is too absurd even for a whist player who's playing bridge for the first day.

[Phil]

I agree with MFA and Cascade. Easy double of 2♠. Had I passed, East needs to play catchup with 3♠.

Just because you have an awkward hand to bid doesn't mean you get to pick daisies and pass.

[wyman]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2010-November-01, 11:14, said:

4th seat should bid Michaels.
Common practice when opps have bid two suits is to have 2C! = Michaeals and 2S = natural.

Anyway, Opener may still bid 2S ( since they apparently aren't playing Support DBLs ) but at least you've gotten your 2 red suits in .
Partner ( Advancer ) will bid 3D ( over 2S ) and you could bid 3H to show additional length .
This might be enough to induce partner to bid 4H with his stiff Q.

I did feel that I would've been able to better evaluate my hand had P made a 2-suited call. However, it would have to be 2N in this case, since both 2-level calls are natural for us. After 2N, it still may go 3D-3H; 4H, but I think 3H is not clear when I haven't shown values.

[wyman]

wank, on 2010-November-01, 11:22, said:

er....why aren't people being harsher on east?

Cause he's already outed himself in the thread, geez!

Quote

i'm assuming people think it's bad form to speak ill of the dead - rigor mortis is the only explanation for failing to bid.

passing 2S with 13 high opposite a partner who made a 2 level overcall opposite a passed hand is terrible.

Agreed.

Quote

passing 3D with 13 high, 4 card support and a partner who's bid on his own upto the 3 level is too absurd even for a whist player who's playing bridge for the first day.

This was less clear to me, but in hindsight, it's clear I had to do something. 3S is probably a reasonable call.

[Gerben42]

West bid voluntarily twice and East had 13 HCP with 4-card support. Conclusion: Medic please, apparently East passed away.

With good agreements, West's first bid is of course 2NT: Medium strength hand with both missing suit. Strong / weak would bid 2♣.

[gnasher]

I think West should show the hearts first rather than showing a two-suiter - the disparity is too great.

[cherdano]

I agree with Andy - this is a 2♥ overcall, unless you have a way to show a 2-suited hand with longer hearts.
It's hard to comment on East's bidding.

[655321]

Gerben42, on 2010-November-01, 12:04, said:

With good agreements, West's first bid is of course 2NT: Medium strength hand with both missing suit. Strong / weak would bid 2♣.

Disagree with gerben42.

gnasher, on 2010-November-01, 12:46, said:

I think West should show the hearts first rather than showing a two-suiter - the disparity is too great.

Agree with gnasher.

[mfa1010]

gnasher, on 2010-November-01, 12:46, said:

I think West should show the hearts first rather than showing a two-suiter - the disparity is too great.

Perhaps, but are you bidding 5♦ over 4♠ later? If not then it could be better to live with the disparity and be sure to get both suits in.

[the hog]

East either died or fell asleep during the bidding.
Disagree with Gnasher and certainly agree with Gerben. Show your 2 suited hand for heaven's sake!

[wyman]

the hog, on 2010-November-01, 23:27, said:

East either died or fell asleep during the bidding.

died imo

rip

[dake50]

Interesting to infer what must be in 2-suiter calls from "insist this is 2H bid".
Must be very weak distributional -- never worth another bid.
How to ever dis-entangle 1-suited hearts from big 2-suited after 2H? 5-4, 6-4, or control when D-rebid? Jump D-rebid has C-void? SA? UNKNOWN?

[mikeh]

I agree with gnasher about the need to bid 2♥.

Reverse the red suits, and I'd show both immediately, but suggesting approximate equivalence between an AJ10xxx major and a Qxxxx minor is just wrong, imo.....don't we want to be in our 6-2 rather than our 5-3? Don't we like 10 trick games rather than 11 trick games?

Yes, if the opps preempt, we might wish we had shown both suits, but if the opps don't preempt, we'll be glad (usually) to have shown better/longer hearts.

I have sympathy for East's pass of 2♠: bidding a 'takeout' double when there is only one suit left unbid strikes me as weird: maybe it's just semantics but I would describe double here as 'action' or 'cards' or 'do something intelligent' rather than as takeout. Anyway, I agree that it is the best call at that stage. However, that wasn't the cause of the disaster....that last pass is truly terrible....at the least, East now had a very easy 3♠ call..altho, since he has passed twice, it's not clear that West will play him for this much....which is ok since surely East has to drive to game somewhere opposite a a 2♥/3♦ sequence from partner?

[Free]

I don't like West's approach, but it works fine on this hand. East however is nuts. Bidding like West shows a decent hand, passing 3♦ is plain ridiculous. I don't like a takeout Dbl on 2♠ that much, but I guess the strength makes it acceptable. I'd prefer ♥Qx.