[Tapek]

---

W N E S
1NT P 2H P
2s P 4C P
4S P 5C P
5H P 6S P

We play standard American and bid slam off RKCG. When reviewing our hands it was found that we were the only ones to be in slam. Just curious to know if we may of overbid the hand or if its the right contract to be in.

[maggieb]

The best spot appears to be 6S or 6N by west, which is cold. This is not so hard to do, since East should just transfer to spades and bid keycard (most partnerships play that

1NT-4♥
4♠-4N

is Keycard for spades. west responds, east sees he is off a keycard, and signs off in 6♠ (played by west).

Some people might be concerned about the lack of a diamond control (that is, partner could have the heart and club aces but nothing in diamonds, and then you will be in slam off two cashing diamonds). I wouldn't be though, 4N is just a practical bid; partner has diamonds controlled usually, and even if he doesn't, they don't always lead it. There are methods to find out about the diamond control, but I don't think they are appropriate suggestions for the B/I forum.

[pooltuna]

Tapek, on Nov 10 2009, 04:03 PM, said:

---

W N E S
1NT P 2H P
2s P 4C P
4S P 5C P
5H P 6S P

We play standard American and bid slam off RKCG. When reviewing our hands it was found that we were the only ones to be in slam. Just curious to know if we may of overbid the hand or if its the right contract to be in.

undoubtly this is where you want to be and getting partner to play the hand makes the slam virtually a lock barring some weird ruff. There is something to be said for transferring to ♠ and just bidding 6. But I wouldn't just on the chance you can make 7

[Tapek]

maggieb, on Nov 10 2009, 04:09 PM, said:

The best spot appears to be 6S or 6N by west, which is cold. This is not so hard to do, since East should just transfer to spades and bid keycard (most partnerships play that

1NT-4♥
4♠-4N

is Keycard for spades. west responds, east sees he is off a keycard, and signs off in 6♠ (played by west).

Some people might be concerned about the lack of a diamond control (that is, partner could have the heart and club aces but nothing in diamonds, and then you will be in slam off two cashing diamonds). I wouldn't be though, 4N is just a practical bid; partner has diamonds controlled usually, and even if he doesn't, they don't always lead it. There are methods to find out about the diamond control, but I don't think they are appropriate suggestions for the B/I forum.

Is there any specific reason for transferring at the 4 level rather then the 2 level and then keycarding in blackwood as opposed to gerber?

[aguahombre]

Tapek, on Nov 10 2009, 10:38 PM, said:

maggieb, on Nov 10 2009, 04:09 PM, said:

The best spot appears to be 6S or 6N by west, which is cold. This is not so hard to do, since East should just transfer to spades and bid keycard (most partnerships play that

1NT-4♥
4♠-4N

is Keycard for spades. west responds, east sees he is off a keycard, and signs off in 6♠ (played by west).

Some people might be concerned about the lack of a diamond control (that is, partner could have the heart and club aces but nothing in diamonds, and then you will be in slam off two cashing diamonds). I wouldn't be though, 4N is just a practical bid; partner has diamonds controlled usually, and even if he doesn't, they don't always lead it. There are methods to find out about the diamond control, but I don't think they are appropriate suggestions for the B/I forum.

Is there any specific reason for transferring at the 4 level rather then the 2 level and then keycarding in blackwood as opposed to gerber?

yes. xfer at the 4-level and then blackwood is rkc for sp, but xfer at two-level and 4NT is choice of strains and slam invite-not asking for aces at all.

xfer at 2-level and then 4C means a lot of different things other than gerber to a lot of people.

[P_Marlowe]

deleted.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Tapek]

Ok thanks, atm our game is much too simple for 4C or 4NT to have another other meanings then asking for keycards.

[manudude03]

Tapek, on Nov 11 2009, 06:50 AM, said:

Ok thanks, atm our game is much too simple for 4C or 4NT to have another other meanings then asking for keycards.

Assuming you do play transfers at the 4 level (the majority of people at my local club don't), there's an easy way to remember.

When you transfer is at the 4 level you're saying your suit is trumps, therefore 4NT must be keycard for that suit.
It doesn't make sense to have 1NT-2x-2y-4NT and 1NT-4x-4y-4NT to mean the same thing*, so you have the 2 level transfer and 4NT as quantitative (just as if the rebid was 3NT only stronger).

*If your partnership allows superaccepts, then 4NT after a superaccept is keycard since partner has agreed to that suit.


The slightly more complicated case is after stayman on which you will see a lot of people play 1NT-2C-2M-4NT as keycard for that suit. If you have any non-descript forcing raise (so you can force with some 16 count 4234 if p bids ♠ say), then 4NT should be quantitative, but lacking that, it makes sense to play it as keycard.

[Phil]

Tapek, on Nov 11 2009, 01:50 AM, said:

Ok thanks, atm our game is much too simple for 4C or 4NT to have another other meanings then asking for keycards.

It depends if you are a student of the game, or someone that just likes to 'play bridge'.

If you consider yourself the former, make a note in your calendar for November, 2010 and come back and read this and tell us if you feel the same as you do now.

[ONEferBRID]

Tapek, on Nov 10 2009, 04:03 PM, said:

Dealer: West Vul: Both Scoring: Unknown

♠ 63 ♥ KQ2 ♦ A95 ♣ AQ964 ♠ AKQ987542 ♥ 6 ♦ QJ ♣ 5

Since there is no way to to find out if partner has at least the Diam K ( for no 2 quick losers in diam ), just use GERBER ( 1NT - 4C! ) to find out about Aces ( rather than 4NT over Texas ).
If he has at least 2 Aces he will reply 4S ... perfect , he will be Declarer in 6S.
If he has 3 Aces, you can ask for Kings... all he needs is ONE ( any suit ) and the grand ( 7NT ) is cold no matter who plays it.
If he has only ONE Ace for his NT count, you can stop in 4S ... Yes, you will be playing it, but others will be in 5S .

[ONEferBRID]

Edit: Deleted due to flawed analysis