[mike777]

For this thread please assume:
1) opp open strong nt.
2) you are at fav vul
3) you play your favorite but semi common nt defense.
4) Assume imps or Mp..your option.

My question is when if ever do you bid in direct or balance seat with 4-4 playing your favorite and at least semi known nt defense?

If never ok pls say ty.

[blackshoe]

Well, I've never done it yet. Don't think I ever would, but who knows?

[MarkDean]

Playing MPs, in balance, I would do it somewhat often with the majors. Even more so all white. Heard stories about Helgemo doing it with 43 in the majors somewhat often, no idea if it is true or not.

I often play natural plus x = majors, not too common, so I apologize if I was not supposed to respond.

[CSGibson]

I've done it with a scattered 16 count, 4-4 in the majors, where I was not eager to defend 1N X because of the lack of a good lead.

[Gerben42]

Quote

My question is when if ever do you bid in direct or balance seat with 4-4 playing your favorite and at least semi known nt defense?

If never ok pls say ty.

No except for a strong hand with 4-4 majors.

[gnasher]

You ask us what we'd do at favourable, but in fact you should be most inclined to contest the partscore when no one is vulnerable. At favourable their undertricks may be costing them more than what you score in your partscore. (This argument is less valid if your intervention is a double that might be passed.)

Non-vulnerable in the passout seat, if I can show both my suits and play in either of them at the two level, I'd bid with a very concentrated 4-4 - something like KQJ10 KJ10x xxx xx would be OK.

Playing Lionel, where a double shows spades and another suit, I'd double in the passout seat with something like KJ10x xx AK10x xxx, because of the added chance that partner will pass it and then make a good lead.

I know of two defences to 1NT which cater for 4-4 shapes:
- Ripstra, where two of a minor shows both majors and length in the bid minor. Playing this, it's normal to bid with a 4432 type.
- Roche, where a 2♣ overcall shows a balanced 12-14. In answer to the obvious questions: yes I have, and no it isn't.

[rogerclee]

Pretty much only 4441 with pretty beefy suits.

[helene_t]

I have a theory that playing DONT (or some other defense that allows you to bid all one- or two-suiters) it is relatively safe to bid with any 4-4 in balancing seat if you have a weak hand. This is because p must have values and therefore must be balanced.

So playing DONT I think I would balance with all weak 4-4 hands when w/w.

[hotShot]

We play Lionel against weak and strong NT.
We use judgment handle vul. and scoring influences.

[gwnn]

I like Ripstra. Of course you should not use it on too many 44(32)'s. But it's fun and safe and descriptive. Sometimes you need to bid 2M with dubious 5 card suits though.

[hrothgar]

Most of the write-ups that I've seen regarding Lionel advocate bidding over a strong NT with 4-4 patterns in both direct and balancing seat.

[andy_h]

If my hand's suited for it, then 4441s or 4-4 majors.

[kenrexford]

If anyone at the table is red in this auction, balancing is riskier. No fudging. So, I'fd echo the 4441's but only if I play balancing Ripstra (A.K.A. Meckwell, I think).

[jdonn]

I will often show majors with 44(41), I don't need to wait to be extremely strong. With (41)44 if I'm at least about opening strength I will sometimes double to show a four card major and longer minor. So sue me.

[FrancesHinden]

Not in the direct seat.
Sometimes in the balancing seat (depends on the hand)

[OleBerg]

Most 4-4 in the majors, shown by 2♣, that contain a reasonably high ODR.

[benlessard]

I mostly balance with 4441. I think balancing with then 4414 or 4144 is ok but with 1444 im sure its a mistake to balance. In direct seat only in MP and W.

[pclayton]

IMPs: Direct seat - possibly with 44 in the majors, but I'd have to really like my hand. I almost always pass. In the balance I'm more inclined to bid, but Im hesitant to turn a plus defending 1N into a minus by bidding or by letting them slither into 2 or 3 of a minor.

MPs. If the opps are NV I'll mix things up a little more and I will frequently balance with 44 anything. I really dont like to let them play their highest scoring partial if I have any choice.

[Trinidad]

Never at favorable vulnerability. But in the balancing seat, at all white, I could show my two best suits when I am (4441) with 4 spades.

Rik