[kgr]

Scoring: MP

---

(2D!)-?
2D= multi, 6 card major and weak or something strong.
What do you bid now or later?
(If you pass it will probably go: (2D)-P-(2H)-p-(p) or (2D)-P-(2S=H preempt)-p-(3H)

[rogerclee]

4♣ LM wtp.

[kgr]

rogerclee, on Jun 3 2008, 02:05 AM, said:

4♣ LM wtp.

I considered this.. but is it also over multi 2D...what major do you promise then and isn't it better to wait till 2H comes back to you?

[jtfanclub]

rogerclee, on Jun 2 2008, 07:05 PM, said:

4♣ LM wtp.

Seems like waiting until 2♥ comes around to you and bidding 3♥ would show this hand better.

I agree with kgr that given your hand, your partner will have no clue which major you have if you bid clubs immediately.

[jdonn]

jtfanclub, on Jun 2 2008, 08:02 PM, said:

rogerclee, on Jun 2 2008, 07:05 PM, said:

4♣ LM wtp.

Seems like waiting until 2♥ comes around to you and bidding 3♥ would show this hand better.

I agree with kgr that given your hand, your partner will have no clue which major you have if you bid clubs immediately.

Seems to me like you are waiting for 4♥ to come back to you. I'm not horribly bothered that partner won't immediately know which major I have.

[mike777]

kgr, on Jun 2 2008, 07:01 PM, said:

<!-- ONEHAND begin --><table border='1'> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td> Dealer: </td> <td> East </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Vul: </td> <td> ???? </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Scoring: </td> <td> MP </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table> <tr> <th> <span class='spades'> ♠ </span> </th> <td> KQxxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='hearts'> ♥ </span> </th> <td>  </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='diamonds'> ♦ </span> </th> <td> AJ </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='clubs'> ♣ </span> </th> <td> AJTxxx </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td>  </td> </tr> </table><!-- ONEHAND end -->
(2D!)-?
2D= multi, 6 card major and weak or something strong.
What do you bid now or later?
(If you pass it will probably go: (2D)-P-(2H)-p-(p) or (2D)-P-(2S=H preempt)-p-(3H)

3C

I hope this shows a good unbalanced hand with clubs and not a balanced hand with both majors.
I only hope my WC partner will be able to understand my nonexpert bid.
I hope my WC partner knows I try to not bid on junk.


Second choice 2S I hope this shows spades and a good hand.

[effervesce]

We play X as an opening or better hand with a 5+ card major. Partner responds as if we opened a multi. Whatever partner bids, I bid and rebid clubs.

[pclayton]

jdonn, on Jun 2 2008, 05:06 PM, said:

jtfanclub, on Jun 2 2008, 08:02 PM, said:

rogerclee, on Jun 2 2008, 07:05 PM, said:

4♣ LM wtp.

Seems like waiting until 2♥ comes around to you and bidding 3♥ would show this hand better.

I agree with kgr that given your hand, your partner will have no clue which major you have if you bid clubs immediately.

Seems to me like you are waiting for 4♥ to come back to you. I'm not horribly bothered that partner won't immediately know which major I have.

I think its difficult for LHO to bounce to the 4 level since LHO needs both majors to do so. I'm more concerned about something like:

2♦ - pass - 2♠ - pass
3♥ - 4♣

and whether or not this would be construed as LM.

Perhaps its better to bid a direct 4♣ and short-circuit these questions.

[gnasher]

pclayton, on Jun 3 2008, 03:41 AM, said:

I think its difficult for LHO to bounce to the 4 level since LHO needs both majors to do so. I'm more concerned about something like: 

2♦ - pass - 2♠ - pass
3♥ - 4♣

The auction that gives you the most problems is
   2♦ 2♠
   4♥
I think opener should strain to bid 4♥ here, in order to teach second hand not to pass with a good hand.
Edit: you could alleviate this problem to some extent by agreeing that passing and then bidding 4♠ over 4♥ shows spades and a minor.

If you are going to agree to pass over a Multi with a good hand, it's safest for this to be a hand with heart length. If LHO is short in hearts, the worst they can do to you is
   2♦ 2♥
   2♠
They are only able to preempt you when LHO has length in both majors, when perhaps you won't mind not being able to show your hand.

Edit: This can lead to other attractive sequences:
  2♦ pass 2♥ pass
  2♠ 3♣
shows 5♥ and 4+♣.

This post has been edited by gnasher: 2008-June-03, 04:24

[gnasher]

4♣ as clubs and a major works well enough; 4♦ as diamonds and a major slightly less well.

I think this is an improvement:
  4♣ = clubs and a major
  4♦ = one-suited in a major
  4M = two-suited with diamonds.

[jtfanclub]

gnasher, on Jun 3 2008, 05:17 AM, said:

Edit: you could alleviate this problem to some extent by agreeing that passing and then bidding 4♠ over 4♥ shows spades and a minor.

I would always assume that passing and then bidding a suit against a transfer pre-empt shows a 2-suiter.

This includes 2♦ P 2♠ P 3♥ 3♠.

[helene_t]

I like Gnasher's method, will discuss this with one of my pds.

[kgr]

(2D!)-3C-(P)-3NT
(P)-4S-All Pass

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This were NS hands and the bidding. Making 4S+2.
- North thought that South's bidding showed something like a 6(7)-4. Does it rather show a 7-4 or a 6-5?

[gnasher]

Jlall, on Jun 3 2008, 10:01 PM, said:

This is not clearly better since you lose the option of bidding leaping michaels and then bidding again when you are very strong.

That's true. With a strong major-diamond two-suiter you'd have to start with a double and hope to be able to show both suits.

Quote

This is much more likely to be useful than being able to show a 1 suiter and then bid again imo.

The idea behind my suggestion is that, facing diamonds and a major, advancer gets to find out what the major is before deciding whether to make a slam try.

The ambiguity after 4♦ showing a one-suiter isn't a problem, because you can play Multi-style advances.

[effervesce]

gnasher, on Jun 3 2008, 05:17 AM, said:

pclayton, on Jun 3 2008, 03:41 AM, said:

I think its difficult for LHO to bounce to the 4 level since LHO needs both majors to do so. I'm more concerned about something like: 

2♦ - pass - 2♠ - pass
3♥ - 4♣

The auction that gives you the most problems is
   2♦ 2♠
   4♥
I think opener should strain to bid 4♥ here, in order to teach second hand not to pass with a good hand.
Edit: you could alleviate this problem to some extent by agreeing that passing and then bidding 4♠ over 4♥ shows spades and a minor.

If you are going to agree to pass over a Multi with a good hand, it's safest for this to be a hand with heart length. If LHO is short in hearts, the worst they can do to you is
   2♦ 2♥
   2♠
They are only able to preempt you when LHO has length in both majors, when perhaps you won't mind not being able to show your hand.

Edit: This can lead to other attractive sequences:
  2♦ pass 2♥ pass
  2♠ 3♣
shows 5♥ and 4+♣.

I agree, but for a different reason-I had a similar hand after partner opened 1NT (mini) - 2♦ (multi-landy). I passed, and LHO passed! leaving them in 2♦ going -1.

Passing with strong hands against a multi is very risky if LHO feels that passing might cause the auction to be passed out when we have game.