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get in there, red vs white?

Poll: Just two options (43 member(s) have cast votes)

Just two options

  1. Pass (5 votes [11.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.63%

  2. Double (38 votes [88.37%])

    Percentage of vote: 88.37%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#21 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2008-June-03, 12:51

jdonn, on Jun 3 2008, 09:10 AM, said:

han, on Jun 3 2008, 09:03 AM, said:

Jlall, on Jun 3 2008, 03:00 AM, said:

cherdano, on Jun 3 2008, 02:57 AM, said:

han, on Jun 2 2008, 05:10 AM, said:

Agree with double but.. why exactly did I not open this hand?

I have no idea, but one of the players who held this hand at the USBF trials passed this hand in the opening seat, and passed again over 2♥. I found both decisions quite surprising.

You guys really find passing a balanced 11 surprising?

I find passing this balanced 11-count count suprising.

[Edit: seriously did not see Josh's post above]

Haven't decided whether to hire Ken or Mike as my lawyer yet, but you'll be hearing from me.

As a defense attorney, I must represent Han.

The defense is easy. The nuance of the italicized "this" rather than the all-caps "this" was quite nuanced and critical to the message.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

-P.J. Painter.
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#22 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2008-June-03, 14:59

han, on Jun 3 2008, 09:03 AM, said:

Jlall, on Jun 3 2008, 03:00 AM, said:

cherdano, on Jun 3 2008, 02:57 AM, said:

han, on Jun 2 2008, 05:10 AM, said:

Agree with double but.. why exactly did I not open this hand?

I have no idea, but one of the players who held this hand at the USBF trials passed this hand in the opening seat, and passed again over 2♥. I found both decisions quite surprising.

You guys really find passing a balanced 11 surprising?

I find passing this balanced 11-count count suprising.

[Edit: seriously did not see Josh's post above]

In my experience top american players (ie, those playing in the USBC) that don't play strong club would not open a balanced 11 without a 5 card suit and without AK A. I would not open it if playing standard methods.
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#23 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-June-04, 03:57

Do you think most American experts base their decision to open a balanced hand only on the high card count? For how many players would the excellent spotcards be a reason to open the hand?

(no sarcasm in this post, sincere questions)
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#24 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2008-June-04, 04:11

han, on Jun 4 2008, 04:57 AM, said:

Do you think most American experts base their decision to open a balanced hand only on the high card count? For how many players would the excellent spotcards be a reason to open the hand?

(no sarcasm in this post, sincere questions)

Can't speak for everyone but since I think HCP are closely correlated to value on balanced hands, I usually use those. We have good spot cards and our honors work well together (KJT, AQ, JT), but we have no 5 card suit and just 11 HCP so I just wouldn't open it in a standard system. I would need a truly exceptional hand to do so with an 11 HCP hand and no 5 card suit.
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#25 User is offline   NickRW 

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Posted 2008-June-04, 09:03

han, on Jun 4 2008, 09:57 AM, said:

Do you think most American experts base their decision to open a balanced hand only on the high card count? For how many players would the excellent spotcards be a reason to open the hand?

(no sarcasm in this post, sincere questions)

Well, I can't speak for any Americans at all. However, for what it is worth, the system of fifths is one of the best systems there is for balanced hands. This hand comes to 11.8 on that scale.

Now you can say, "oh well, that is nearly 12 and we open 12s so I'll open". But as Thomas Andrews points out one has to think quite carefully about the impact of using fractional values on one's system. If you open 11.8s "because they're nearly 12" you're essentially saying you open bad 12s. That may or may not be what you and your partner really want to do.

Again, FWIW, passing bad (balanced) 12s is good bridge at least as often as it is bad in my experience

Nick
"Pass is your friend" - my brother in law - who likes to bid a lot.
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#26 User is offline   SoTired 

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Posted 2008-June-04, 09:41

I think Bridge is like Chess in that first move has an advantage. So I open all balanced 12s and a few balanced 11s. This one qualifies because of the 3 connected 10s. The hand just looks "meaty" to me. Although some expert players that I am fortunate enough to partner occassionally have complained about the quality of my preempts, none have ever mentioned my opening bids.
It costs nothing to be nice -- my better half
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#27 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2008-June-04, 18:57

For me, vulnerability is also a factor when deciding to open with balanced 11. I will open most balanced 11s w/r, but very few when r/w.
That's impossible. No one can give more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most anyone can give.
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#28 User is offline   MarkDean 

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Posted 2008-June-04, 20:12

I would pass. I figured it would be a minority view, but did not think this big of a minority!

I think the odds of a game are relatively slim. Partner would need the perfect hand to have not acted, and to not act in balance, to make game opposite this. I would guess that the odds of -500 are at least as good as the odds of a game. I have played weak nt for years, and have gotten many juicy penalties on auctions like this.

My real fear in passing is that partner has spades, and that we are losing a partscore battle, to me, it is just not worth the risk.
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#29 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2008-June-04, 23:22

Certainly x now. Would originally have passed this playing 2/1.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#30 User is offline   joker_gib 

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Posted 2008-June-05, 04:00

Yes, X now and pass before
Alain
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#31 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2008-June-06, 03:16

wtp X
From Psych "I mean, Gus and I never see eye-to-eye on work stuff.
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
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#32 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2008-June-06, 15:28

Jlall, on Jun 3 2008, 10:00 AM, said:

cherdano, on Jun 3 2008, 02:57 AM, said:

han, on Jun 2 2008, 05:10 AM, said:

Agree with double but.. why exactly did I not open this hand?

I have no idea, but one of the players who held this hand at the USBF trials passed this hand in the opening seat, and passed again over 2♥. I found both decisions quite surprising.

You guys really find passing a balanced 11 surprising?

11???
This isn't an 11-count to me...but I do open 11-counts. B)
Kind regards,
Harald
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