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WTP?

#1 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2008-May-31, 12:52

Is this a wtp?

Kxx Qx xxxxxx QJ

r/w 2nd seat

2H p 4H X
p ?

X=cards/takeout oriented
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#2 User is offline   karlson 

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Posted 2008-May-31, 13:21

I think this is pretty far from a wtp.

I would bid 5d, but I've changed my mind a few times in the 2 minutes I've thought about it.

I'm assuming imps. More likely to pass at mp.
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#3 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2008-May-31, 13:25

5♦ seems obvious if the double is mainly takeout.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#4 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2008-May-31, 13:27

We have 6+16(+) of 30 working points in SpadesDiaClubs. 6D on or 4HX-3. Pick.

WTP?
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#5 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2008-May-31, 13:32

I would certainly bid 5♦ but I am not confident that it's the percentage choice.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#6 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-May-31, 13:45

Sign me up for 5D wtp please. I recently discussed with Justin that (2S)-p-(4S)-Dbl should be taken out more often than (4S)-Dbl and I think the same logic applies here.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#7 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2008-May-31, 14:18

I bid 5D.
If they are in a 9-card fit I shall regret this.

Other half said "dunno. Depends how many diamonds partner has got really"
And eventually passed.

So not a wtp
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#8 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2008-May-31, 14:28

pass. with trepidation
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#9 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2008-May-31, 14:57

I would definitely pass and am very surprised that people are bidding 5♦ here. We have nothing in diamonds and a ton of soft values. Why hang partner for making a borderline double? Don't you guys routinely double 4♥ on 4225/4126 shape?

The last time I pulled a similar auction like this to 5m, I had a much better hand than this, partner did not have a minimum, partner had 3-card support, and I went down 3.
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#10 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2008-May-31, 15:51

Not a WTP by anymeans. I slightly prefer to pass with these soft values and noting that sometimes PD may have only 3♦
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#11 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2008-May-31, 16:03

Jlall, on May 31 2008, 01:52 PM, said:

X=cards/takeout oriented

Pass for me.

Even after a double defined as purely takeout I might pass, but if double is more 'cards' I think pass is almost a WTP.
That's impossible. No one can give more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most anyone can give.
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#12 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-May-31, 16:05

These are always a guess, I have doubled for takeout in partner's seat when 4216 but he can always be the perfect 4045 or something too. I think I like 5♦ better, sometimes it will push them to 5♥ anyway which is probably my tiebreaker.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#13 User is offline   Halo 

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Posted 2008-May-31, 16:22

Pass.

My partners don't always have pure 16+ hands for the double.
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#14 User is offline   NickRW 

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Posted 2008-May-31, 16:40

For me this primarily hinges on how many hearts partner is likely to have. I think 2 is very likely especially since, at these colours, opener may only have 5 of them. In which case no 6D and the likely profit from axing their contract beats the 5D making option - probably.

It is true that 5D may push them to 5H. On the other hand they may have pushed their luck already and know it.

So I vote for pass.

Nick
"Pass is your friend" - my brother in law - who likes to bid a lot.
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#15 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2008-May-31, 16:46

rogerclee, on May 31 2008, 09:57 PM, said:

Don't you guys routinely double 4♥ on 4225/4126 shape?

No. And if I did, I wouldn't call it "cards/takeout oriented".
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#16 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2008-May-31, 16:49

han, on May 31 2008, 08:45 PM, said:

I recently discussed with Justin that (2S)-p-(4S)-Dbl should be taken out more often than (4S)-Dbl

What was your reasoning?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#17 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2008-May-31, 16:53

gnasher, on May 31 2008, 05:49 PM, said:

han, on May 31 2008, 08:45 PM, said:

I recently discussed with Justin that (2S)-p-(4S)-Dbl should be taken out more often than (4S)-Dbl

What was your reasoning?

It was actually 1S p 4S vs 4S, the reasoning is obviously if you have say, xxx of spades, partner could easily have a doubleton after 4S X but is far more likely to have a void than a doubleton after 1S p 4S X
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#18 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2008-May-31, 16:54

655321, on May 31 2008, 05:03 PM, said:

Jlall, on May 31 2008, 01:52 PM, said:

X=cards/takeout oriented

Pass for me.

Even after a double defined as purely takeout I might pass, but if double is more 'cards' I think pass is almost a WTP.

hehe yeah when I initially posted it I wasn't sure if I should or not because I thought it might be a "wtp pass" but I guess I was right to post it since most are bidding 5D!
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#19 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2008-May-31, 20:37

Jlall, on May 31 2008, 01:52 PM, said:

r/w  2nd seat ♠ Kxx ♥ Qx ♦ xxxxxx ♣ QJ
(2♥) _p (4♥) _X
(_P) ??
X=cards/takeout oriented. Is this a wtp?

IMO _P = 10, 5♦ = 7, 4♠ = 5.
It's close.
  • If partner is 4234 we should probably pass.
  • If partner is 5044, we should probably bid.
  • So assume partner is 4144 or 5134 e.g.
    • ♠ AQxx ♥ x ♦ Axxx ♣ Axxx
    • ♠ QJxxx ♥ x ♦ AKQ ♣ Kxxx
Oh well. That hasn't helped much :P But
  • partner is more likely to hold primary ♠ support than ♦ support
  • 5♦ requires 11 tricks (that's why 4♠ deserves a passing glance).
Hence, I guess to pass :D
Guthrie.tech
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#20 User is offline   xcurt 

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Posted 2008-May-31, 21:40

I will take out.

Of course this could be a big disaster. On the other hand our diamonds might counterfeit partner's defensive tricks too. I've learned that taking these out unless bidding is totally ******* nuts, not just mildly crazy, is a big IMP winner in the long run.

Curt
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