[helene_t]

KamalK, on Apr 22 2008, 05:17 AM, said:

And that if its a 50-50 chance, better to bid game and try for those 2-3 overtricks?

Yes. OTOH if it's 51-49, bid it.

[mikeh]

mike777, on Apr 21 2008, 01:13 AM, said:

If you were writing a book with a chapter about bidding or not trying to bid slams at MP what points would you want to suggest?

For example someone might suggest something extreme such as:

"Give up on bidding slams, you will come gain more than you lose"

What do you suggest?

Or assume you are playing as a Pro at MP, what would you suggest about bidding or not bidding slams at MP?

1. read a good book on hand evaluation

2. read the same book on LISTENING to the auction (part of hand evaluation)

3. After you have learned blackwood or keycard, play for a year (if you can find a partner willing to do this) without using any ace-asking bids at all. Find a good book on cuebidding (not Ken's opus, because it is not exactly mainstream and not aimed at this level of player)

4. Learn that an 18 point hand opposite an opening hand is NOT a reason to bid slam.. it is a reason to think that slam MAY be biddable.. but hauling out keycard is not the way to find out.

5. Learn the importance of distribution. I frankly don't know whether the various schemes for adding 'points' for shortness or length actually work... I don' t think in those terms and I don't know any expert who does.. but I do know that such schemes are taught. So maybe they have a place, but I'd certainly want to tell players to picture partner's hand as the auction unfolds and to realize how shortness opposite weakness is good and values opposite is good and vice versa

6. Learn the importance of 'working cards', this is related, of course, to (5)

7. Learn that once you have limited your hand, if partner is still trying for slam, stop asking 'do I have a good hand?'... you've already said 'no', and partner is still asking... so the question is 'how good is my hand in context?'. The answer, of course, is contained in the above points about shape and working cards.

8. Learn to ask oneself the right questions. As Hamman, or his ghost writer wrote, the right question is 'now what do I?' but 'what's going on?'. Answer the second question and the first question often answers itself.

None of this is specific to matchpoints but I really don't see a lot of difference between imps and mps for small slam bidding. Both are break-even, more or less, at 50%. Pure power slams are truly 50%. Shapely slams, bid with 24-28 hcp or less, tend to be higher variance scores, but again, in the long run, are 50%.

Grands.. well, at mps, an advancing pair will not really hurt its score by almost never bidding grand. I'd advise such a pair not to bid a grand unless they can count 13 tricks or 37 hcp. But that would fix them at a bad level... as their card play improved, I'd lower it to counting 12 sure tricks and having an expectation of where the 13th will come from. And, again, the test isn't really different from the advice I'd give at imps, altho the arguments will be a little different.

[Vilgan]

jtfanclub, on Apr 21 2008, 12:26 PM, said:

IMHO, the main problem with the intermediates I play against is playing far too many conventions without understanding when the conventions should be used, the followups, etc.  I'd say half of the people I play with at the local club would be better off if they completely forgot Jacoby 2NT, Splinters, cue bids, support doubles, and anything more complex.  Blackwood, Stayman, transfers to the majors over 1NT, takeout doubles, maybe 1NT forcing.  When they're good at that, then add the other systems one at a time.

Huh?

Support doubles are like bread and butter to bidding. In my opinion, they should be taught right after takeout doubles, stayman, and transfers.

As someone who was a a beginner like 2.5 years ago, I don't know that some of the advice here is really in tune.

Bidding slams is FUN. If you make it, you feel good. If you don't, its a learning experience. JT had a story about some beginner who was bummed for 3 boards. Oh well. If the slam HAD made, what do you think the beginner would have remembered? The 3 boards she played okay on, or that she BID AND MADE A SLAM!! ?

The key thing is to try and then learn what went wrong. Learn to evaluate your hand, sources of tricks is a lot more important than HCP. Don't go crazy with conventions, just listen to the auction and try to evaluate your hand. I don't know that even learning regular blackwood has any point. Just start with RKC or kickback and only ever know that. Slam bidding IS a lot easier with 2/1 being a GF, but its doable in standard too.

All the discussion of %'s and such doesn't matter when you are learning. You learn by trying and either succeeding or failing. The main point is to look at what worked and what didn't so you learn from it. If you play 100 sessions but never examine what was good and bad, you will improve a lot less than playing 25 sessions and examining what happened on each board and how you or your partner could have known to do something better.

I remember being SO excited when I bid and made 7 NT for the first time (it took 2 attempts, the first time it splattered on a 5-0 diamond break) after like 3 months of playing. When you are new, everything should be exciting. Heck it should be still be exciting as an expert, why play otherwise? So if people tell you not to bid slams.. just shrug and move on. How are you going to learn other than by trying?

The only conventions I consider really hard to do without in slam bidding are:
RKC (kickback preferably, especially for minor suit slams)
Splinters
2/1 Game Force and the concept of fast arrival
Jacoby 2NT is nice but not omg critical
Super not useful: Regular blackwood. 4NT is almost always better (imo) as quantitative or something else.