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Q-KQJTxxx-Axxx-x What do you open?

Poll: What do you open? (48 member(s) have cast votes)

What do you open?

  1. 1H : 5cards Majors (20 votes [41.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 41.67%

  2. 3D : Transfer preempt to H (1 votes [2.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.08%

  3. 4C : Namyats promising 8 tricks by agreement. (6 votes [12.50%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.50%

  4. 4H : preempt (21 votes [43.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 43.75%

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#1 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2007-March-27, 16:14

You play MP's and are dealer. Nobody Vuln.
You hold:
Q-KQJTxxx-Axxx-x
You have following possibilities:
1H : 5cards Majors
3D : Transfer preempt to H
4C : Namyats promising 8 tricks by agreement.
4H : preempt
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#2 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2007-March-27, 16:17

4
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
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#3 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2007-March-27, 16:26

This would be too light for namyats in my style, but if your agreement is 8 tricks then that seems perfect.
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#4 User is offline   Gerben42 

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Posted 2007-March-27, 16:26

I agree 100% with Justin.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do!
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#5 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2007-March-27, 16:38

Yeah namyats is just what the doctor ordered :)
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#6 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2007-March-27, 16:42

Jlall, on Mar 28 2007, 12:26 AM, said:

This would be too light for namyats in my style, but if your agreement is 8 tricks then that seems perfect.

Except that I can only count 7 tricks.
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#7 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2007-March-27, 16:43

kgr, on Mar 27 2007, 05:42 PM, said:

Jlall, on Mar 28 2007, 12:26 AM, said:

This would be too light for namyats in my style, but if your agreement is 8 tricks then that seems perfect.

Except that I can only count 7 tricks.

2D+6H=8.

If you don't agree with calling this 2 diamond tricks you are essentially counting x KQJTxxx Axxx x as the same hand as xx KQJTxxx Ax xx. I don't really know LTC but I think they would count this hand as 5 losers too (which is like 8 tricks).
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#8 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2007-March-27, 16:46

Counting 2 diam tricks is absolutely statistically viable :)
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#9 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2007-March-27, 16:49

OK, I should have opend 4C then. I just didn't want to stretch the namyats too much.
I opened 1H (suppose you did not have 4C Namyats available) :
1H-(DBL)-P-(1S)-?
What do you bid now?
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#10 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2007-March-27, 17:28

kgr, on Mar 27 2007, 05:49 PM, said:

OK, I should have opend 4C then. I just didn't want to stretch the namyats too much.
I opened 1H (suppose you did not have 4C Namyats available) :
1H-(DBL)-P-(1S)-?
What do you bid now?

4H.
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#11 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2007-March-28, 04:55

1 and now 4 what a perfect describtion of my hand.... too strong for a preempt, too weak for namyats, long hearts, exactly what I have....
Kind Regards

Roland


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More system is not the answer...
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#12 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2007-March-28, 05:32

Jlall, on Mar 28 2007, 12:43 AM, said:

If you don't agree with calling this 2 diamond tricks you are essentially counting x KQJTxxx Axxx x as the same hand as xx KQJTxxx Ax xx. I don't really know LTC but I think they would count this hand as 5 losers too (which is like 8 tricks).

You have the following LTs:
: 1
: 1.5 (1 but adjisted +0.5 for having the queen and not the ace)
: 1.5 (2 but adjusted -0.5 for having the ace and not the queen)
: 1
------
Total: 5
======

But I think this hand has a slight positive bias because partner, if short in diamonds, probably can't ruff your diamond loosers (or any of them).

FWIW, I open 4 (Namyats). Leufken's law (or Burges's, depending on hemisphere).
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#13 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2007-March-28, 09:47

Its a NAMYATS opener for me. A 7-4 plays like an 8 bagger, and I have 8 tricks.

This hand is just way too heavy for a 4 opener, especially with 4 available.

It seems inconsistent to me to open this 1 and bounce to 4 if pard can't take a call at round 1.
"Phil" on BBO
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#14 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2007-March-28, 10:13

This hand is not strong enough for my naymats.. I require 8.5 tricks. I see 8. So an opening 4 is out of the question for me.

The next question is, should I preempt? If playing my normal system where an acol 2 bid is available as well as the 4 opening, I would open 1 planning on rebidding 3 showing a hand like this (or perhaps even rebid 4. The message will be clear, not enough winners for 4 not strong enough for Acol 2 bid (5+ controls), but lots of tricks.

Not playing my normal system, where 1 followed by 3 or 4 shows a strong hand as opposed to a lot tricks but denies the ability to open with the other bids (acol or 4) I would open 4 as only real way to bid it without distorting the hand.
--Ben--

#15 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2007-March-28, 10:40

inquiry, on Mar 28 2007, 10:13 AM, said:

Not playing my normal system, where 1 followed by 3 or 4 shows a strong hand as opposed to a lot tricks but denies the ability to open with the other bids (acol or 4) I would open 4 as only real way to bid it without distorting the hand.

I don't think 1H-?-4H shows a hand stronger than this in standard. It seems a reasonable way if you want to describe your hand (as opposed to making opponents guess with an immediate 4).
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#16 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2007-March-28, 11:04

I'm sure that none of the regular forum posters will be surprised to discover that I am a 4 opener.

For what its worth, I don't consider this hand appropriate for a NAMYATS type opening. When I play NAMYATS type methods I want trump tricks and controls, not long Diamonds that I am praying might get established or ruffed. (I also think that you definition for the opening is a bit light)

Once I eliminate 4 from the mix, the only real decision is 1 or 4. (Opening at the three level seems to completely mis describe the hand and lord knows I wouldn't ever want to use a transfer preempt).

I'll (almost) always open a 7-4 pattern with 4M or 5m so its not a hard decision for me.
Alderaan delenda est
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#17 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2007-March-28, 17:47

Thanks for the opinions given.
Bidding at our table was:
1H-(DBL)-P-(1S)
4H-(DBL)-All Pass
Partner hand was somethng like:
AT9xx-xx-xx-xxxx
vs
Q-KQJTxxx-Axxx-x
LHO started with a small spade. Opps are not very strong, so I tried to play S Ace and run s amll D, but LHO returned H ace and a small H.
4Hx-3 for a zero. 4S was going down at the other tables.
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#18 User is offline   effervesce 

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Posted 2007-April-01, 05:36

Quote

4Hx-3 for a zero. 4S was going down at the other tables.


Thats why opening 4H at matchpoints is a very good alternative-in matchpoints the FREQUENCY of finding the right spot is king-it matters less on finding slam since that is a lower frequency than preempting the opps out of bidding, and reaching a (looking at your hand) spade or club game.

Bidding 4H directly also has the major benefit of also being less likely to be doubled and passed out for penalties-with you bidding 1H-(X) then 4H-(X) the opponents are more happy to pass out 4HX than if you bid 4H straight off the bat.
Ming

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#19 User is offline   mojila 

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  Posted 2007-April-03, 10:11

4 non vul ... They may have game in or ... with law of expectation
I would bid 4 also this makes hard for opponant
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