[kfgauss]

Limey_p, on Jul 27 2006, 07:03 PM, said:

Assuming responder's 2♦ and 2♥ show 5-card suits, 2♣ promises only two. This makes it ACBL-alertable.

Note: if it promises 3 it is not ACBL-alertable.

AP

references: Natural calls are not alertable unless specifically noted - http://www.acbl.org/...alertchart.html

A minor suit bid is natural if it promises 3 cards - http://www.acbl.org/play/alert.html

While what you write is very relevant to the discussion, I feel obliged to point out that the opening bid was 1♥ and thus making 2♦ show 5 only requires 2♣ with 3 (and only 3-3-4-3 distribution), unless, of course, they also play Kaplan Inversion (ie 1N shows 5 spades) and thus must bid 2♣ on 4-3-4-2 as well (in addition to 4-3-3-3 and 4-2-4-3).

Andy

[McBruce]

hotShot, on Jul 27 2006, 09:40 AM, said:

Lets forget the alert issue for a moment and ask yourself what explanation should be given.
2♣ shows 3+ ♣ and may contain a longer suit. Could the hand contain a 4card ♠ suit? Would you bid 1♠ over 1♥ with 6542 and ♥ support or would you bid a minor e.g. 2/1 GF. Could the hand contain 4 cards in ♥, of cause it can. Is a delayed game rise impossible?

You hold East's hand:

xx
xxx
xx
KQxxx

You hear 1♥ on your left, pass from partner, and 2♣ on your right. You are entitled to the opponents agreements. But since 2♣ on 3+ is defined as "natural" by the ACBL GCC, you are not entitled to an alert. And here is the point. If you ask any of the questions above, partner will not be able to lead a club against 6NT without hearing an immediate call for the TD. If you were given an alert and asked, the UI situation would be far less obvious.

Surely we're not going to argue that East has to double with this hand to get the lead he wants. Partner has passed and the opponents are in a 2/1 auction. 2♣ redoubled making several overtricks is not a result I want to risk.

How does 3+ differ from 4+? "Natural and expected" here is that responder's clubs are 4+ and clubs is the responder's longest or tied-for-longest suit (unless he has big-time trump support and will show that later). The possibility to bid 2♣ on xxx is highly unexpected to most players. It's a legal loophole which reduces the chance of a club lead against 6NT. That's a major difference.

[paulg]

Limey_p, on Jul 27 2006, 08:03 PM, said:

Assuming responder's 2♦ and 2♥ show 5-card suits, 2♣ promises only two.  This makes it ACBL-alertable.

If it only shows two clubs, then it must be game forcing to be GCC. Otherwise it will be Mid Chart.