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extras but no clear direction

#1 User is offline   kuhchung 

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Posted 2016-February-03, 11:40

2/1, normal style

Axx Ax T8xx QJ76, 3rd seat, don't remember vul, no form of scoring
Partner deals

1H (p) 1N (x)
p (2D) ?
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#2 User is online   mike777 

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Posted 2016-February-03, 11:48

I will try double as most flexible given OP

I think I have denied 4s or 3h or very long clubs or a dead minimum in values.


btw I would have started with 2c unless we open light or on junky bal hands.
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#3 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2016-February-03, 11:56

2c would have been a gross overbid.

as for what to do now, i prefer to double, because if i pass, partner will almost certainly double and i won't know what to do.
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#4 User is online   mike777 

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Posted 2016-February-03, 11:59

View Postwank, on 2016-February-03, 11:56, said:

2c would have been a gross overbid.

as for what to do now, i prefer to double, because if i pass, partner will almost certainly double and i won't know what to do.



NOt sure how 2c is a gross overbid, esp if we don't play it as gf or we do not open on junk or light and none of that is specified in the OP

I mean give pard something close to: KJx,,KQJxx...Ax..T98
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#5 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2016-February-03, 12:49

View Postmike777, on 2016-February-03, 11:59, said:

NOt sure how 2c is a gross overbid, esp if we don't play it as gf or we do not open on junk or light and none of that is specified in the OP

I mean give pard something close to: KJx,,KQJxx...Ax..T98


if we were playing some obscure method where 2c isn't game-forcing, i expect the op would have told us.
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#6 User is offline   kuhchung 

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Posted 2016-February-03, 12:54

Standard opening style, 2/1 gf.

I kind of expected a unanimous double, but I had followup questions. I also don't know how to play bridge.
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#7 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2016-February-03, 13:12

If we can trust partner not to make a unilateral pass with an unbalanced hand over x, the doubling is totally clear.

Aren't you glad our double is penalty and not some weird 2425 9 count?
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#8 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2016-February-03, 13:34

View PostPhil, on 2016-February-03, 13:12, said:

If we can trust partner not to make a unilateral pass with an unbalanced hand over x, the doubling is totally clear.

Aren't you glad our double is penalty and not some weird 2425 9 count?

Is our double penalty?
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#9 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2016-February-03, 14:36

View Postgwnn, on 2016-February-03, 13:34, said:

Is our double penalty?


99.9%

Given partners pass over the double they are VERY unlikely to have anything other than a weak notrump kind of hand and I think you do have a clear direction.

One of the old greats said that the lower the level of a doubled contract, the faster you should lead trumps and I expect a nice profit doing so here.
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#10 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2016-February-03, 15:01

So with Axx Ax xxx QJxxx you're happy to pass? I have no idea how it's playable to have this as a penalty or a "99.9% penalty" double. I can see "extras with no clear direction" or "cards" or "optional" here, but I don't know how penalty is supposed to work. Phil says it's penalty but he expects partner to pull on an unbalanced hand, is that like 4513 or 3514 subminimum?
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#11 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2016-February-03, 16:35

View Postgwnn, on 2016-February-03, 15:01, said:

So with Axx Ax xxx QJxxx you're happy to pass? I have no idea how it's playable to have this as a penalty or a "99.9% penalty" double. I can see "extras with no clear direction" or "cards" or "optional" here, but I don't know how penalty is supposed to work. Phil says it's penalty but he expects partner to pull on an unbalanced hand, is that like 4513 or 3514 subminimum?


No I'm not happy to pass but with partner holding a balanced mininum, where is this hand going?

Edit I'd x anyway.
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#12 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2016-February-03, 16:46

I'll x which should show a balanced max with tolerance for a pass by opener.

It would be nice if posts here showed form of scoring. Having the opps make 2♦x at Imps isn't game and may not be the end of the world.
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#13 User is offline   kuhchung 

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Posted 2016-February-03, 16:52

View Postneilkaz, on 2016-February-03, 16:46, said:

I'll x which should show a balanced max with tolerance for a pass by opener.

It would be nice if posts here showed form of scoring. Having the opps make 2♦x at Imps isn't game and may not be the end of the world.


edited the OP
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#14 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2016-February-03, 17:54

The double says all my double are penalty in this sequences since I think it would show opps have not yet found their suits fit.
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#15 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2016-February-04, 00:06

The problem is that playing 2/1, 1 NT ought to be either forcing or semi-forcing over 1 ♥. Since that makes 1 NT ambiguous about strength, I'd see a double here as a balance of power double telling partner it's our hand and wanting to compete further with no clear direction.
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#16 User is offline   zillahandp 

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Posted 2016-February-04, 05:38

X but dont stand on your chair
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#17 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2016-February-04, 05:58

View Postkuhchung, on 2016-February-03, 11:40, said:

2/1 normal style.
don't remember vul, no form of scoring

mike777 said:

NOt sure how 2c is a gross overbid, esp if we don't play it as gf or we do not open on junk or light

View Postkuhchung, on 2016-February-03, 12:54, said:

I also don't know how to play bridge.

Mods, please move this to the expert forum.
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#18 User is offline   Caitlynne 

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Posted 2016-February-04, 07:42

Double. What could possibly be the problem or concern?

This is 100000000000000000% clear and obvious. You have defense (3 to 4 tricks), no assurance of game, and want to bid with no clear bid. Partner will play you for fewer than 4 spades, fewer than 3 hearts, and no 6 card suit. Therefore, you will always have at least 3 diamonds.

This double shows cards and partner is consulted about what to do.

Could they end up making 2Dx if partner passes? Sure. But that is not going to be a disaster at IMPs. At MPs, the chances of a top seem much higher than a bottom. I would not be surprised to beat this 2 tricks on a partscore deal.
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#19 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2016-February-04, 18:47

View Postmike777, on 2016-February-03, 11:59, said:

NOt sure how 2c is a gross overbid, esp if we don't play it as gf or we do not open on junk or light and none of that is specified in the OP

OP said their playing 2/1 so 2♣ is GF, so you may be committing to a 23 pt game.

course may not be your fault , op edited post



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#20 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2016-February-04, 18:52

del
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